34. Food – a catalyst for change
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CORDIScovery podcast- Episode #34 - Food – a catalyst for change
This is an AI transcription.
00:00:03:24 - 00:00:10:03
CORDIScovery
00:00:10:05 - 00:00:16:02
Abigail Acton
This is CORDIScovery.
00:00:16:04 - 00:00:42:02
Abigail Acton
Hello. Welcome to this episode of CORDIScovery with me, Abigail Acton. What is behind the Neolithic demographic transition? A period which saw a dramatic increase in the birth rate? Did people take to the seas far earlier than previously thought? And if so, what inspired them to get into their boats and brave the waters? What is the difference between a flourishing desert frontier fort and one that dwindles into dust food?
00:00:42:04 - 00:01:06:16
Abigail Acton
A change in the source of food. A supply of nutritious prey within reach if you can get to it. Innovations in agriculture and sophisticated means of irrigation that turn desert into pasture all have had far reaching impacts. Welcome to our three guests who, with the help of support from the EU, can tell us how food was a driver for social change for three very different communities in antiquity.
00:01:06:18 - 00:01:30:08
Abigail Acton
We shall be using the terms before the Common Era BCE and Common Era C, which correlate directly with BC and A.D.. Bettina Schulz Paulsson, an associate professor of archeology at the University of Gothenburg, Sweden, specializes in research related to the stone ages. Her interests encompass Stone Age, seafaring megaliths, prehistoric whaling and scientific dating and methods. Hello, Bettina.
00:01:30:10 - 00:01:32:11
Bettina Schulz Paulsson
Hello. Hello, everybody.
00:01:32:13 - 00:01:54:09
Abigail Acton
Welcome to Corinna Rossi, who is an associate professor of Egyptology at the Polytechnic of Milan. Her research focuses on the relationship between architecture and mathematics in ancient Egypt. Corinna has a special interest in the antiquities of Egypt's Western desert, with special attention to the strategies of occupation and exploitation in the Roman era, period. Welcome, Corinna. Hello.
00:01:54:09 - 00:01:56:20
Corinna Rossi
Hello, Abigail. And hello everyone.
00:01:56:22 - 00:02:18:24
Abigail Acton
Sofija Stefanović is Professor of Physical Anthropology and Bioarcheology in the Department of Archeology at the University of Belgrade in Serbia. She is interested in the prehistoric patterns of fertility and the influence of the duration of breastfeeding on children's health in the Neolithic period. Hello, Sofija.
00:02:18:25-00:02:19:00
Sofija Stefanović
Hello, Abigail, and thanks for having me. Very welcome. We are delighted you are here.
00:02:19:01 - 00:02:41:21
Abigail Acton
I'm going to turn to Bettina first. The Bronze Age has been associated with the start of maritime activity, but new data points to a much earlier date. The NEOSEA Project considered the data that points to the Neolithic seafaring and its role in shaping a new, interconnected world of megalithic societies. Bettina, when do you believe that maritime activity and ship building actually began then?
00:02:41:23 - 00:03:35:15
Bettina Schulz Paulsson
A maritime activity started actually as early as two Pleistocene with the colonization of Australia as the most prominent example, and this is around 60,000 years ago. And in Europe and in particular along the Atlantic facet, along the Atlantic coasts, I would say between Scandinavia and Portugal, seafaring and maritime was a long trade. It was traditionally believed to have begun during the Bronze Age, around 2000 502,000 BCE, and we have now current evidence that suggests that it started at least 2000 years earlier and during the megalithic times and this society must have possessed advanced nautical technologies that enabled them sea crossings and the navigation of watercraft guided by stars and the sun.
00:03:35:17 - 00:03:41:08
Bettina Schulz Paulsson
And then they also needed to know how to deal with tights and tempest on the open seas, for example.
00:03:41:10 - 00:03:54:10
Abigail Acton
Okay. So that's quite a departure is fascinating, really is that's quite a departure from the previous held beliefs about, you know, when that sort of activity first actually took off. So what led you to this conclusion? Why do you believe it is actually earlier?
00:03:54:12 - 00:04:19:18
Bettina Schulz Paulsson
If you have to coastal settings of the megaliths and we can follow this spread with radiocarbon dates with three phases, then we have similar symbols and also a similar symbolic language which connects regions which are far distant. And then we have also evidence from the trade of Greenstone from southern Spain to Brittany, and this must have been happening most probably along the seaways.
00:04:19:20 - 00:04:25:15
Bettina Schulz Paulsson
And Brittany is also the only region where we have boats depicted on standing stones and in megalithic reefs.
00:04:25:17 - 00:04:41:19
Abigail Acton
I wanted to ask you about this. So when we talk about Megaliths, we're talking about there's wonderful, great big, huge standing stones. You mentioned what's depicted on them. I find this fascinating because I love these stones. Who doesn't? They're so evocative and so powerful. But you look at them and they really do look like just a brute stone face.
00:04:41:21 - 00:04:49:02
Abigail Acton
How do you know that there are engravings on them? How do you what tools what techniques do you use to actually establish what the images are that's on them?
00:04:49:06 - 00:05:16:01
Bettina Schulz Paulsson
So I was documenting the megalithic art and engravings in Brittany using as a way 3D modeling, but also using mostly laser scanning. And a laser scanning is really a wonderful technique. And I used a handheld laser scanner to come into the narrow graves, and it was really working very well. And the results are analyzed for different software. And then we can make eroded symbols visible again, which are not to seen with the naked eye.
00:05:16:04 - 00:05:17:08
Bettina Schulz Paulsson
This is beautiful.
00:05:17:10 - 00:05:18:20
Abigail Acton
I think that's fascinating. Yeah.
00:05:18:20 - 00:05:21:17
Bettina Schulz Paulsson
Yeah. It's a magic moment, really. When they're diving up.
00:05:21:21 - 00:05:26:23
Abigail Acton
You're looking at something that hasn't been seen for thousands and thousands and thousands of years. It must be a real thrill.
00:05:27:04 - 00:05:33:07
Bettina Schulz Paulsson
Yeah. This really. And it's really creating some kind of connection also to these societies. What is very nice.
00:05:33:09 - 00:05:41:04
Abigail Acton
Absolutely. So what were you seeing in the images? What images were you seeing that made you think that these people were seafaring?
00:05:41:06 - 00:06:06:15
Bettina Schulz Paulsson
As I said, Brittany is the only region where we have boats and we found more and more boat engravings and boats for different materials and different types, but also other maritime symbols, sperm whales and giant squids and especially the sperm whales. Well, it was showing the laser skin additive in connection to small boats, reminding very much the historical paintings from the 17th, 18th century of whaling.
00:06:06:15 - 00:06:08:19
Bettina Schulz Paulsson
So this is very interesting.
00:06:09:00 - 00:06:16:15
Abigail Acton
Yeah. And I remember you mentioning in an earlier conversation we had that actually some of these images actually showed the whale spouting.
00:06:16:17 - 00:06:34:09
Bettina Schulz Paulsson
Yes. And the whales are depicted. The depiction of ice is a depiction of living whales. This we can see because we see the blow received a 3D dimension of the fluke. And everything is indicating that this society's really encountered living whales on the open sea.
00:06:34:11 - 00:06:47:13
Abigail Acton
Right. And so your hypothesis, maybe if I could put it that way, is that the people were drawn into maritime activity in pursuit of marine mammals because they make very good prey. Is that your idea?
00:06:47:15 - 00:07:01:23
Bettina Schulz Paulsson
Yeah, this was my idea from the beginning, and that, you know, you have to develop advanced technology to follow whales. And this was maybe a bit the beginning of the seafaring and of long-distance maritime ventures.
00:07:02:04 - 00:07:11:13
Abigail Acton
But if you're right and people took to the waves earlier than initially thought, what would the impact on culture have been if there was more seafaring mobility in that era?
00:07:11:19 - 00:07:39:08
Bettina Schulz Paulsson
We have partly a common symbolic identity along the coasts of Atlantic Europe, and the sperm whales are repeating, but also symbols as troops. And we find older symbols we are repeating, and then we have Calais spits into Breton, Breton Toms in Brittany and Carlos is a shiny green mineral, which is very raw in Europe, and we can really trace that the raw material for the beads we find in Brittany.
00:07:39:08 - 00:07:53:18
Bettina Schulz Paulsson
Are coming from southern Spain and we don't find any beats there at this time. So there must have been trading the raw material and it's very one of the services we have been identifying is accessible overseas and to rivers.
00:07:53:20 - 00:08:00:05
Abigail Acton
Bettina, how can you actually work out what these ancient communities were eating? What techniques are you using and what are you finding?
00:08:00:07 - 00:08:14:01
Bettina Schulz Paulsson
We are doing really a huge range of natural scientific analyzes beside a DNA. We are also doing isotopic analyzes and they're especially to solve for isotopes.
00:08:14:03 - 00:08:17:16
Abigail Acton
And what does that entail? What does that mean? Actually, in practice.
00:08:17:16 - 00:08:52:07
Bettina Schulz Paulsson
We are measuring isotopes sulphurous C for protein and also 15 to reconstruct a diet. This is giving us indications for how much sea mammal fat or grain. There was a really part of the diet and we also taking environmental DNA on researching also tracing for whale DNA if you find it which sediments from the graves and in cooking pits we are doing some organic residue analyzes and there we can isolate the lipids and look what societies were cooking.
00:08:52:10 - 00:08:56:17
Bettina Schulz Paulsson
So if they were cooking whale blubber or whales or what kind of diet they had.
00:08:56:19 - 00:08:59:13
Abigail Acton
Thank you. Any questions? Yes, please. Corinna.
00:08:59:19 - 00:09:19:18
Corinna Rossi
I wanted to know something about evidence, archaeological evidence of actual boats. Because you mentioned scenes in teething, sheep and whales engraved on rocks. But I was wondering whether there's evidence, any evidence of actual remains of boats?
00:09:19:20 - 00:09:45:19
Bettina Schulz Paulsson
No, there is not. As a not this kind of boats. There's much later from the Bronze Age, from 2700 BCE, from the UK, we have a playing boat, for example. We have two dugout canoes, but the depictions into graves and understanding so it's there show different boat types. I think they're mostly used skinned boats and you don't need to sail, you need to row, you need enough people to row to get speed, to follow weight.
00:09:45:21 - 00:10:02:12
Bettina Schulz Paulsson
You need speed. You can't sail to go back to the harbour. Then to find to coast again, you need maybe a small sail, but to get speed you need a lot of people who are rowers. And we have really depictions with 12 people on board, for example, from Brittany. So it would be enough.
00:10:02:14 - 00:10:20:17
Abigail Acton
Now it's fascinating and so risky and so physically demanding. Goodness me, the idea of having to keep up with them physically, you know, by just rowing. Gosh, yes, indeed. But you would need that precision which you couldn't get with the sailing, of course. Yes. Interesting. Thank you very much. Well, that was obviously fascinating. And I'm now going to turn to Corinna.
00:10:20:19 - 00:10:40:07
Abigail Acton
Corinna, life investigated late Roman settlements along Frontier Desert areas in the Western Sahara to get a clear idea of the strategies used to control the empire's desert edges. You've built up a relationship, if I can put it that way, with the Umm al-Dabadib site. You've worked there for 25 years, on and off, so can you tell us a little bit about the place?
00:10:40:07 - 00:10:42:02
Abigail Acton
If we were looking at it, what would we see.
00:10:42:08 - 00:11:02:17
Corinna Rossi
How would you see? First of all, a very beautiful site said that when I went there for the first time over 25 years ago, I went there by chance. I was a Ph.D. student at Cambridge at that time, and I thought I saw it and I said, What a wonderful place. When I go back to the library, I want to learn all about that.
00:11:02:19 - 00:11:30:00
Corinna Rossi
And when I actually went back, I realized that the sites had never been and not even been studied, never been documented, so nothing existed about it. It was a huge site, very well preserved. But nothing was known. There wasn't even a map. The site is located at the foot of an escarpment, which means that there's water coming from below and there is natural vegetation.
00:11:30:02 - 00:12:02:14
Corinna Rossi
So this must be something that was noted since the earliest times. So it is possible that there was a settlement well before the Roman times. But clearly in the early Roman time we're talking about first, second, the second third century CE we have a settlement, a Roman settlement there. But what happens at some point in the fourth century is that the Romans built a fortified settlement in front of the older settlement with this little port in the middle and an enclosed wall all around.
00:12:02:16 - 00:12:17:13
Corinna Rossi
And that was quite a statement. The site, the area is either harried, so it's very difficult to live there, but the Romans quarried five parallel aqueducts underground into this garden.
00:12:17:15 - 00:12:22:02
Abigail Acton
Tell us a little bit about the aqueducts and how they fed into a system of agriculture.
00:12:22:04 - 00:12:47:08
Corinna Rossi
What they did was they quarried the gently sloping subterranean tunnels that went into the body of the escarpment and drew water and collected it by gravity on the surface to be cultivated. And then from there was a network of open-air canal, the spread for kilometres on the desert surface, and turn that this desert into a green garden.
00:12:47:10 - 00:13:11:22
Corinna Rossi
And it's amazing because when you get there, you cannot see anything of the ancient fields. But for a few minutes at sunset, because the sun goes down and when there are no clouds, suddenly you see all the Romans century axial spreading on the fields. And then after a few minutes is gone and you can actually see it very well from the satellite.
00:13:11:24 - 00:13:27:23
Abigail Acton
That's fantastic. So it's the lowering of the sun with the shadows casting long shadows across the surface of the earth. yes, I can imagine. Gosh, that must be a really amazing it's like a little moment in the day where history just reveals itself and then boom, it's gone again. gosh. Yeah. Thrilling, What exactly was the extent?
00:13:28:00 - 00:13:32:13
Abigail Acton
One question. Exactly what was the extent? And the other question is, what were they growing? Do you have any idea.
00:13:32:16 - 00:13:55:18
Corinna Rossi
The extent of the site is quite large. What survives at the party is a rare combination of what I call the two sides of the same coin, one that could not exist without the other one. That was the reason for the other to exist, that is the settlement and the agricultural system because the site had to be independent.
00:13:55:20 - 00:14:21:24
Corinna Rossi
So the settlement is quite small and concentrated, but the agricultural system spreads for kilometres. So it really takes up a lot of space and a lot of effort. So we think we know what they grew. We could analyze the metrics of which the settlement is made and that they contain botanical remains. Of course, these remains that date to the period in which the settlement was being built.
00:14:22:03 - 00:14:48:18
Corinna Rossi
So they don't tell anything about what happened later. But we made a study of the cultivation, so we realized that that's the fertility of the soil would sharply decline unless they adopted a crop rotation system. And even that wouldn't have been enough because only water would not be enough to sustain long term agricultural exploitation. So they had to add one for sure.
00:14:48:18 - 00:14:59:19
Corinna Rossi
Pigeon guano. In fact, we found the remains of pigeon Tower and clearly the pigeons were used to provide meat and also to provide guano for the cultivation.
00:14:59:23 - 00:15:00:22
Abigail Acton
Like a fertilizer?
00:15:00:24 - 00:15:01:17
Corinna Rossi
Absolutely.
00:15:01:17 - 00:15:01:23
Abigail Acton
Brilliant.
00:15:02:08 - 00:15:26:03
Corinna Rossi
And this was crucial for the inhabitants to keep cultivating the land. And in fact, we think that the reason why the site was abandoned was actually the fact that that the water table dropped. So where the aqueducts stopped providing enough water to irrigate all the fields. And this was probably the reason why the site was eventually abandoned after only one century of occupation.
00:15:26:05 - 00:15:39:08
Abigail Acton
What would have the impact of being culturally and I would say socioeconomically, of having an outpost of the Roman Empire there? Would they have been collecting taxes from trade routes? What was the impact of the fort?
00:15:39:14 - 00:16:14:17
Corinna Rossi
We realized that there is nothing that is non-Egyptian at the site. Allow me to explain. We realized, for instance, that the fortified settlement and the Fort were constructed using the ancient Egyptian unit of measurement and the dead were buried after Egyptian customs and religious culture. So there's nothing that really tells us about screen presence there. So clearly this is a group of Egyptians that were being resettled there by the Roman authorities.
00:16:14:17 - 00:16:40:20
Corinna Rossi
So of course, there must have been Roman soldiers or soldiers belonging to the Roman army. But they're likely to have been Egyptian themselves. And if you look at the fort and you look at it from a distance, you would think that it was full of armed soldiers guarding some sort of treasure inside. But actually out there, the real treasure were water and food water was available from the aqueduct and the food.
00:16:40:20 - 00:17:04:23
Corinna Rossi
So laboriously cultivated and collected was actually stored in the fort. So the fort was actually food storage, guarded probably by a small contingent of soldiers. And the role of the site was to guard one of the water sources along the caravan routes that led to the core of the oasis. And there were other similar sites all around the oasis.
00:17:05:00 - 00:17:39:19
Corinna Rossi
And then nearby there is a huge alum mine. So most probably the site was built there also to coordinate the exploitation of this island mine. And Alum was being traded to the valley and then to the core of the Roman Empire. Alum was a very important mineral used as a disinfectant to dye textiles and to as an additive to medicaments of various types.
00:17:39:20 - 00:17:47:10
Corinna Rossi
So it was an important commodity and the Kharga mines must have been quite important in antiquity.
00:17:47:16 - 00:18:00:19
Abigail Acton
Okay, thank you and thank you particularly for spending what alum was without me having to come in and ask you. I'm very grateful you did that. I think I'm going to have to reveal my ignorance here. Very good. That's fascinating. Do you have any questions at all for Corinna? Sofija, I think you had a question.
00:18:00:21 - 00:18:20:23
Sofija Stefanović
Corinna probably this question during the Roman time wouldn't be politically correct, but today I think that I can ask you about your perspective. Is this the whole, this process of modernization was beneficial for the people in Egypt, especially when it comes to the food production and supply.
00:18:21:00 - 00:18:49:14
Corinna Rossi
It's difficult to answer in a precise way because as I said, we found evidence only of Egyptian activities. So clearly, yes, in a way, because people who lived there were provided with enough resources to build a substantial settlement of the houses are quite large and luxurious houses. They are very nice they're not barracks in the middle of nowhere.
00:18:49:20 - 00:19:09:03
Corinna Rossi
So people were accommodated in a very nice and comfortable way. So yes, clearly, I think impression that if I can use these terms, make a very clear distinction. I think these were some sort of colonies. We're not talking about colonialism; we're talking about colonization.
00:19:09:09 - 00:19:34:05
Abigail Acton
Thank you very much. Excellent. Lovely. Sofija, I'm going to turn to you now. Your project was the BIRTH project, and that looked into the key biological and cultural mechanisms affecting fertility rates and infancy during the early middle Holocene, which is 10000 to 5000 BCE in the Balkans. May I ask you Sofija why did you feel that it was important to study the lives of prehistoric mothers and babies?
00:19:34:07 - 00:19:58:04
Sofija Stefanović
I think that motherhood topic is very important as survival of humans, depending on the quality of life of historic mothers and babies. But how they lived is almost unknown. So based on the small density of archeological remains during the first two and a half million years of human evolution, it was assumed that until 10,000 years ago.
00:19:58:04 - 00:20:32:11
Sofija Stefanović
So until the Neolithic, the number of people on Earth was very small. So before the Neolithic mothers probably gave birth to only one child. So in order to find out did Neolithic mothers really started to have more babies? So we investigated the biological evidence of the number of pregnancies and also how long babies were breastfed, what was supplementary food, as well as how Neolithic culture contributed to changes in motherhood.
00:20:32:13 - 00:20:35:21
Abigail Acton
And what was known about that before you started your project?
00:20:35:23 - 00:21:24:01
Sofija Stefanović
Actually, we do have any biological evidence about the number of pregnancies, so everything about the human demography was based on archaeological remains. So the main idea is to find the first biological evidences about the number of pregnancies, but also about all those other aspects which are relevant for the understanding of this important process of the fertility increase. So, for example, to investigate the number of pregnancies, we decided to count the number of so-called crisis lines so hidden in the root of our teeth.
00:21:24:03 - 00:22:09:12
Sofija Stefanović
So this is the tooth cementum and relation method which is based on two facts. First, each of us gets a new layer of tooth cementum every year. So when the root of tooth is cut with the diamond sow, and the thin section is made and looks under the microscope according to the number of lines of tooth cementum. So as same as with the rings on tree, we can say how old is and secondly more important previous clinical study of our politics in Germany on a woman with a known number of pregnancies showed that during the year of pregnancy, probably due to the calcium problems, this line is different.
00:22:09:12 - 00:22:47:08
Sofija Stefanović
So its shape changes and it's become deeper and irregular. So that allows us to investigate whether and to what extent the number of the so-called crises and number of pregnancies increase. And in the Neolithic woman. And second, when it comes to another important aspects of fertility, this is the duration of breastfeeding. So we decided to investigate the differences of the duration of breastfeeding in their Neolithic and in previous periods.
00:22:47:10 - 00:23:16:14
Abigail Acton
That's great. And I'd like to discuss the breastfeeding and the whole notion of the infancy and the weaning in a second. But I'd like to go back now to these rings in the teeth just a second to understand better. So they're almost like, you could say crisis rings. We could say maybe stress rings. So what we're talking about here is the impact of pregnancy on the body's ability to lay down calcium in the teeth because I believe we were also thinking in an earlier conversation that there might also be there was, in fact, a difference between the number of stress rings in male teeth.
00:23:16:16 - 00:23:22:02
Abigail Acton
More in the period before when we were more hunter gatherer is that the case?
00:23:22:03 - 00:23:50:10
Sofija Stefanović
Yeah, that's true. Our results because we didn't analyse only females. We also have, let's say, control group of males because those crisis lines also can appear, and we broke the bone and we have a problem with calcium or we have some kidney disease. So we cannot be sure that each line is only connected to the pregnancy. But in our control groups, it shows that males before the Neolithic have more crisis lines.
00:23:50:12 - 00:24:12:12
Sofija Stefanović
But in Neolithic it's look like that Neolithic groups are more peaceful life for males because we couldn't find so many crisis lines in male during the Neolithic in the contrary to the female when this number of crisis line excluded during the Neolithic.
00:24:12:12 - 00:24:30:24
Abigail Acton
Right and so that's another reason why you actually posit that that might be relating, in fact to the number of the number of pregnancies and births. And so the population exploded. We're seeing more and more stress rings in females, perhaps indicating number of pregnancies. And what was the cause? What do we imagine was the reason for this sudden increase in the number of pregnancies?
00:24:31:02 - 00:25:13:08
Sofija Stefanović
What we found in our sample in our micro region and what is also suggested by some other scientists that is also possible. Very important aspects of this increase are the changes in the way of life. So basically, Neolithic people introduced the milk of domesticated animals and plants. But what was very important to us to investigate is that all those innovations have influence to the duration of the breastfeeding because the breastfeeding is directly connected to fertility.
00:25:13:08 - 00:25:52:20
Sofija Stefanović
So as long as we are breast fed, it will be harder to came to a possibility for the new pregnancy. And we analyzed the duration of breast feeding of mothers or actually those children who lived 10,000 years ago and until 5000 years ago. And what we have found through the isotopic study is that children in Neolithic were breastfed for one year, even less, and that mothers before the Neolithic breastfed their children until age of four, sometimes even five years of age.
00:25:53:01 - 00:25:57:13
Abigail Acton
And what enabled this transition? Why was the breastfeeding period shorter in the Neolithic?
00:25:57:13 - 00:26:34:16
Sofija Stefanović
We think that this is the invention of new supplementary food. So the domestication of plant and animals allowed to make new type of porridge, so a new type of baby food appear. And this new type of baby food was available all year around, so it was not dependent on hand thing and gathering or conditions. So it was easier to use cereals and milk to make, you know, like today's mother also do the same with the supplementary food.
00:26:34:18 - 00:26:58:06
Sofija Stefanović
So we think this new type of porridge was actually something which allowed Mother to breastfeed shorter, but also for other members of community to participate more in the whole feeding process. Because with this new type of porridge, it was possible for fathers, grandmothers, younger children to feed the babies.
00:26:58:08 - 00:27:08:23
Abigail Acton
And what is causing you to think about the idea of alternative food? Yes, the food was existing, but have you found any artifacts that would pose the idea that there would be the porridge?
00:27:09:00 - 00:27:46:23
Sofija Stefanović
Yeah, we actually found through this isotopic study. So in the chemical composition of bones that weaning food would have changed with the Neolithic, so with more carbohydrates brought from the new plants. But what, what was very exciting for us because when we discovered that females started to breastfeed for such a short period of time, we were thinking what became formed in the archaeological record, which indicate this very important change which happened, and we found in Neolithic completely new type of tool appear.
00:27:47:00 - 00:28:16:22
Sofija Stefanović
Those are small bone tools made from the old bones of the cow and thousands of those small bones’ spoons appear. And we discovered thousands of teeth marks on those spoons. So we realized that Neolithic people not only invented new type of food, but also they produce very specific type of tool to feed the baby.
00:28:16:22 - 00:28:31:17
Sofija Stefanović
So this was very exciting for us because it shows that something really new and innovative did happen and it was followed. But also the, you know, new, new type equipment.
00:28:31:19 - 00:28:55:11
Abigail Acton
We like the idea of weaning equipment in the Neolithic. Isn't that great? Neolithic weaning equipment, little, tiny bone spoons with teeth marks on. Isn't that cool? Thank you so much, Sofija. It's fascinating. And of course, this then causes a population explosion. And we were quite precarious before, weren't we? The population was considered to be quite small, and we were fragile and vulnerable, and then suddenly, boom, it takes off and you're feeding babies with spoons.
00:28:55:13 - 00:29:00:07
Abigail Acton
Fantastic. Okay. Does anyone have any questions for Sofija? Bettina? Yes, please.
00:29:00:09 - 00:29:26:19
Bettina Schulz Paulsson
This is really interesting. And we noticed that in a Neolithic the demographic is exploding. And you really think because of this they could have more babies, more children, and the porridge is the reason why there were so many Neolithic people.
00:29:26:19 - 00:30:02:04
Sofija Stefanović
Finally, I think is one of the most important because it's allowed the shorter breast breastfeeding before the that it really was not easy to find some supplementary food. So as a hunter gatherer, you can provide the fish or you are very limited, you know, and you are dependent on the weather condition or the climatic conditions. So this was very important innovation like in the 19th century when new supplementary food was invented, the population growth happened. So because it's really directly connected to the fertility circles. So if you do not breastfeed until the age of three or four years, like in the Mesolithic, I think that was one of the most important.
00:30:02:04 - 00:30:07:22
Sofija Stefanović
I don't say the only one reason, but very important reason for the fertility increase.
00:30:07:22 - 00:30:20:15
Abigail Acton
And also, as you say, it enables communal caring for the babies. It's not just the mother that has to be then out of we could almost say a role of productivity for, you know, sourcing other food and so on. I mean, she's not tied to a small infant.
00:30:20:15 - 00:30:41:16
Sofija Stefanović
Yeah, definitely. This contributed to the important change in the whole system of this co-operative breeding. So we are co-operative breeders, so we are helping each other to raise the children. But with this new supplementary food, it was possible to upgrade this system and put it on a completely new, new, new level.
00:30:41:18 - 00:30:44:16
Abigail Acton
Fascinating. Wonderful. Yes, please, Corinna.
00:30:44:18 - 00:30:56:10
Corinna Rossi
And I suppose that also the fact that that people became steeply located in one place so they, they were not nomads anymore and they.
00:30:56:14 - 00:30:57:12
Corinna Rossi
Just stopped.
00:30:57:12 - 00:31:16:19
Corinna Rossi
In the same place and established a stable settlement. And that also helped raising more babies, I think because having one single place where food was stably kept and conserved and provided also help. There was part of the big picture, I suppose.
00:31:16:22 - 00:31:46:14
Sofija Stefanović
Definitely. I also think that houses were very important, especially because houses were heated so that have also important influence on the process of the thermoregulation. Because if you have thermally stable conditions like from the Neolithic, this is also important for the birth process and for the survival of the babies after the birth. So absolutely, the house life was very, very, very important for the success of humans.
00:31:46:14 - 00:32:01:08
Abigail Acton
Fantastic. Well, thank you very much, all three of you. I think that's absolutely fascinating. See how these various communities and cultures spun off in different directions once a new source of food was revealed and available. Thank you. I think that was just wonderful. Very much enjoyed it.
00:32:01:12 - 00:32:03:10
Bettina Schulz Paulsson
Thank you very much. Thank you.
00:32:03:12 - 00:32:04:12
Corinna Rossi
Thank you very much.
00:32:04:12 - 00:32:08:14
Sofija Stefanović
Thank you so much for this opportunity. You are all very welcome.
00:32:08:19 - 00:32:09:03
Abigail Acton
Thanks.
00:32:09:09 - 00:32:13:24
All
Thank you. Bye bye. Bye.
00:32:14:01 - 00:32:42:16
Abigail Acton
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00:32:42:18 - 00:33:08:11
Abigail Acton
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00:33:08:17 - 00:33:27:24
Abigail Acton
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This is an AI transcription.
00:00:03:24 - 00:00:10:03
CORDIScovery
00:00:10:05 - 00:00:16:02
Abigail Acton
This is CORDIScovery.
00:00:16:04 - 00:00:42:02
Abigail Acton
Hello. Welcome to this episode of CORDIScovery with me, Abigail Acton. What is behind the Neolithic demographic transition? A period which saw a dramatic increase in the birth rate? Did people take to the seas far earlier than previously thought? And if so, what inspired them to get into their boats and brave the waters? What is the difference between a flourishing desert frontier fort and one that dwindles into dust food?
00:00:42:04 - 00:01:06:16
Abigail Acton
A change in the source of food. A supply of nutritious prey within reach if you can get to it. Innovations in agriculture and sophisticated means of irrigation that turn desert into pasture all have had far reaching impacts. Welcome to our three guests who, with the help of support from the EU, can tell us how food was a driver for social change for three very different communities in antiquity.
00:01:06:18 - 00:01:30:08
Abigail Acton
We shall be using the terms before the Common Era BCE and Common Era C, which correlate directly with BC and A.D.. Bettina Schulz Paulsson, an associate professor of archeology at the University of Gothenburg, Sweden, specializes in research related to the stone ages. Her interests encompass Stone Age, seafaring megaliths, prehistoric whaling and scientific dating and methods. Hello, Bettina.
00:01:30:10 - 00:01:32:11
Bettina Schulz Paulsson
Hello. Hello, everybody.
00:01:32:13 - 00:01:54:09
Abigail Acton
Welcome to Corinna Rossi, who is an associate professor of Egyptology at the Polytechnic of Milan. Her research focuses on the relationship between architecture and mathematics in ancient Egypt. Corinna has a special interest in the antiquities of Egypt's Western desert, with special attention to the strategies of occupation and exploitation in the Roman era, period. Welcome, Corinna. Hello.
00:01:54:09 - 00:01:56:20
Corinna Rossi
Hello, Abigail. And hello everyone.
00:01:56:22 - 00:02:18:24
Abigail Acton
Sofija Stefanović is Professor of Physical Anthropology and Bioarcheology in the Department of Archeology at the University of Belgrade in Serbia. She is interested in the prehistoric patterns of fertility and the influence of the duration of breastfeeding on children's health in the Neolithic period. Hello, Sofija.
00:02:18:25-00:02:19:00
Sofija Stefanović
Hello, Abigail, and thanks for having me. Very welcome. We are delighted you are here.
00:02:19:01 - 00:02:41:21
Abigail Acton
I'm going to turn to Bettina first. The Bronze Age has been associated with the start of maritime activity, but new data points to a much earlier date. The NEOSEA Project considered the data that points to the Neolithic seafaring and its role in shaping a new, interconnected world of megalithic societies. Bettina, when do you believe that maritime activity and ship building actually began then?
00:02:41:23 - 00:03:35:15
Bettina Schulz Paulsson
A maritime activity started actually as early as two Pleistocene with the colonization of Australia as the most prominent example, and this is around 60,000 years ago. And in Europe and in particular along the Atlantic facet, along the Atlantic coasts, I would say between Scandinavia and Portugal, seafaring and maritime was a long trade. It was traditionally believed to have begun during the Bronze Age, around 2000 502,000 BCE, and we have now current evidence that suggests that it started at least 2000 years earlier and during the megalithic times and this society must have possessed advanced nautical technologies that enabled them sea crossings and the navigation of watercraft guided by stars and the sun.
00:03:35:17 - 00:03:41:08
Bettina Schulz Paulsson
And then they also needed to know how to deal with tights and tempest on the open seas, for example.
00:03:41:10 - 00:03:54:10
Abigail Acton
Okay. So that's quite a departure is fascinating, really is that's quite a departure from the previous held beliefs about, you know, when that sort of activity first actually took off. So what led you to this conclusion? Why do you believe it is actually earlier?
00:03:54:12 - 00:04:19:18
Bettina Schulz Paulsson
If you have to coastal settings of the megaliths and we can follow this spread with radiocarbon dates with three phases, then we have similar symbols and also a similar symbolic language which connects regions which are far distant. And then we have also evidence from the trade of Greenstone from southern Spain to Brittany, and this must have been happening most probably along the seaways.
00:04:19:20 - 00:04:25:15
Bettina Schulz Paulsson
And Brittany is also the only region where we have boats depicted on standing stones and in megalithic reefs.
00:04:25:17 - 00:04:41:19
Abigail Acton
I wanted to ask you about this. So when we talk about Megaliths, we're talking about there's wonderful, great big, huge standing stones. You mentioned what's depicted on them. I find this fascinating because I love these stones. Who doesn't? They're so evocative and so powerful. But you look at them and they really do look like just a brute stone face.
00:04:41:21 - 00:04:49:02
Abigail Acton
How do you know that there are engravings on them? How do you what tools what techniques do you use to actually establish what the images are that's on them?
00:04:49:06 - 00:05:16:01
Bettina Schulz Paulsson
So I was documenting the megalithic art and engravings in Brittany using as a way 3D modeling, but also using mostly laser scanning. And a laser scanning is really a wonderful technique. And I used a handheld laser scanner to come into the narrow graves, and it was really working very well. And the results are analyzed for different software. And then we can make eroded symbols visible again, which are not to seen with the naked eye.
00:05:16:04 - 00:05:17:08
Bettina Schulz Paulsson
This is beautiful.
00:05:17:10 - 00:05:18:20
Abigail Acton
I think that's fascinating. Yeah.
00:05:18:20 - 00:05:21:17
Bettina Schulz Paulsson
Yeah. It's a magic moment, really. When they're diving up.
00:05:21:21 - 00:05:26:23
Abigail Acton
You're looking at something that hasn't been seen for thousands and thousands and thousands of years. It must be a real thrill.
00:05:27:04 - 00:05:33:07
Bettina Schulz Paulsson
Yeah. This really. And it's really creating some kind of connection also to these societies. What is very nice.
00:05:33:09 - 00:05:41:04
Abigail Acton
Absolutely. So what were you seeing in the images? What images were you seeing that made you think that these people were seafaring?
00:05:41:06 - 00:06:06:15
Bettina Schulz Paulsson
As I said, Brittany is the only region where we have boats and we found more and more boat engravings and boats for different materials and different types, but also other maritime symbols, sperm whales and giant squids and especially the sperm whales. Well, it was showing the laser skin additive in connection to small boats, reminding very much the historical paintings from the 17th, 18th century of whaling.
00:06:06:15 - 00:06:08:19
Bettina Schulz Paulsson
So this is very interesting.
00:06:09:00 - 00:06:16:15
Abigail Acton
Yeah. And I remember you mentioning in an earlier conversation we had that actually some of these images actually showed the whale spouting.
00:06:16:17 - 00:06:34:09
Bettina Schulz Paulsson
Yes. And the whales are depicted. The depiction of ice is a depiction of living whales. This we can see because we see the blow received a 3D dimension of the fluke. And everything is indicating that this society's really encountered living whales on the open sea.
00:06:34:11 - 00:06:47:13
Abigail Acton
Right. And so your hypothesis, maybe if I could put it that way, is that the people were drawn into maritime activity in pursuit of marine mammals because they make very good prey. Is that your idea?
00:06:47:15 - 00:07:01:23
Bettina Schulz Paulsson
Yeah, this was my idea from the beginning, and that, you know, you have to develop advanced technology to follow whales. And this was maybe a bit the beginning of the seafaring and of long-distance maritime ventures.
00:07:02:04 - 00:07:11:13
Abigail Acton
But if you're right and people took to the waves earlier than initially thought, what would the impact on culture have been if there was more seafaring mobility in that era?
00:07:11:19 - 00:07:39:08
Bettina Schulz Paulsson
We have partly a common symbolic identity along the coasts of Atlantic Europe, and the sperm whales are repeating, but also symbols as troops. And we find older symbols we are repeating, and then we have Calais spits into Breton, Breton Toms in Brittany and Carlos is a shiny green mineral, which is very raw in Europe, and we can really trace that the raw material for the beads we find in Brittany.
00:07:39:08 - 00:07:53:18
Bettina Schulz Paulsson
Are coming from southern Spain and we don't find any beats there at this time. So there must have been trading the raw material and it's very one of the services we have been identifying is accessible overseas and to rivers.
00:07:53:20 - 00:08:00:05
Abigail Acton
Bettina, how can you actually work out what these ancient communities were eating? What techniques are you using and what are you finding?
00:08:00:07 - 00:08:14:01
Bettina Schulz Paulsson
We are doing really a huge range of natural scientific analyzes beside a DNA. We are also doing isotopic analyzes and they're especially to solve for isotopes.
00:08:14:03 - 00:08:17:16
Abigail Acton
And what does that entail? What does that mean? Actually, in practice.
00:08:17:16 - 00:08:52:07
Bettina Schulz Paulsson
We are measuring isotopes sulphurous C for protein and also 15 to reconstruct a diet. This is giving us indications for how much sea mammal fat or grain. There was a really part of the diet and we also taking environmental DNA on researching also tracing for whale DNA if you find it which sediments from the graves and in cooking pits we are doing some organic residue analyzes and there we can isolate the lipids and look what societies were cooking.
00:08:52:10 - 00:08:56:17
Bettina Schulz Paulsson
So if they were cooking whale blubber or whales or what kind of diet they had.
00:08:56:19 - 00:08:59:13
Abigail Acton
Thank you. Any questions? Yes, please. Corinna.
00:08:59:19 - 00:09:19:18
Corinna Rossi
I wanted to know something about evidence, archaeological evidence of actual boats. Because you mentioned scenes in teething, sheep and whales engraved on rocks. But I was wondering whether there's evidence, any evidence of actual remains of boats?
00:09:19:20 - 00:09:45:19
Bettina Schulz Paulsson
No, there is not. As a not this kind of boats. There's much later from the Bronze Age, from 2700 BCE, from the UK, we have a playing boat, for example. We have two dugout canoes, but the depictions into graves and understanding so it's there show different boat types. I think they're mostly used skinned boats and you don't need to sail, you need to row, you need enough people to row to get speed, to follow weight.
00:09:45:21 - 00:10:02:12
Bettina Schulz Paulsson
You need speed. You can't sail to go back to the harbour. Then to find to coast again, you need maybe a small sail, but to get speed you need a lot of people who are rowers. And we have really depictions with 12 people on board, for example, from Brittany. So it would be enough.
00:10:02:14 - 00:10:20:17
Abigail Acton
Now it's fascinating and so risky and so physically demanding. Goodness me, the idea of having to keep up with them physically, you know, by just rowing. Gosh, yes, indeed. But you would need that precision which you couldn't get with the sailing, of course. Yes. Interesting. Thank you very much. Well, that was obviously fascinating. And I'm now going to turn to Corinna.
00:10:20:19 - 00:10:40:07
Abigail Acton
Corinna, life investigated late Roman settlements along Frontier Desert areas in the Western Sahara to get a clear idea of the strategies used to control the empire's desert edges. You've built up a relationship, if I can put it that way, with the Umm al-Dabadib site. You've worked there for 25 years, on and off, so can you tell us a little bit about the place?
00:10:40:07 - 00:10:42:02
Abigail Acton
If we were looking at it, what would we see.
00:10:42:08 - 00:11:02:17
Corinna Rossi
How would you see? First of all, a very beautiful site said that when I went there for the first time over 25 years ago, I went there by chance. I was a Ph.D. student at Cambridge at that time, and I thought I saw it and I said, What a wonderful place. When I go back to the library, I want to learn all about that.
00:11:02:19 - 00:11:30:00
Corinna Rossi
And when I actually went back, I realized that the sites had never been and not even been studied, never been documented, so nothing existed about it. It was a huge site, very well preserved. But nothing was known. There wasn't even a map. The site is located at the foot of an escarpment, which means that there's water coming from below and there is natural vegetation.
00:11:30:02 - 00:12:02:14
Corinna Rossi
So this must be something that was noted since the earliest times. So it is possible that there was a settlement well before the Roman times. But clearly in the early Roman time we're talking about first, second, the second third century CE we have a settlement, a Roman settlement there. But what happens at some point in the fourth century is that the Romans built a fortified settlement in front of the older settlement with this little port in the middle and an enclosed wall all around.
00:12:02:16 - 00:12:17:13
Corinna Rossi
And that was quite a statement. The site, the area is either harried, so it's very difficult to live there, but the Romans quarried five parallel aqueducts underground into this garden.
00:12:17:15 - 00:12:22:02
Abigail Acton
Tell us a little bit about the aqueducts and how they fed into a system of agriculture.
00:12:22:04 - 00:12:47:08
Corinna Rossi
What they did was they quarried the gently sloping subterranean tunnels that went into the body of the escarpment and drew water and collected it by gravity on the surface to be cultivated. And then from there was a network of open-air canal, the spread for kilometres on the desert surface, and turn that this desert into a green garden.
00:12:47:10 - 00:13:11:22
Corinna Rossi
And it's amazing because when you get there, you cannot see anything of the ancient fields. But for a few minutes at sunset, because the sun goes down and when there are no clouds, suddenly you see all the Romans century axial spreading on the fields. And then after a few minutes is gone and you can actually see it very well from the satellite.
00:13:11:24 - 00:13:27:23
Abigail Acton
That's fantastic. So it's the lowering of the sun with the shadows casting long shadows across the surface of the earth. yes, I can imagine. Gosh, that must be a really amazing it's like a little moment in the day where history just reveals itself and then boom, it's gone again. gosh. Yeah. Thrilling, What exactly was the extent?
00:13:28:00 - 00:13:32:13
Abigail Acton
One question. Exactly what was the extent? And the other question is, what were they growing? Do you have any idea.
00:13:32:16 - 00:13:55:18
Corinna Rossi
The extent of the site is quite large. What survives at the party is a rare combination of what I call the two sides of the same coin, one that could not exist without the other one. That was the reason for the other to exist, that is the settlement and the agricultural system because the site had to be independent.
00:13:55:20 - 00:14:21:24
Corinna Rossi
So the settlement is quite small and concentrated, but the agricultural system spreads for kilometres. So it really takes up a lot of space and a lot of effort. So we think we know what they grew. We could analyze the metrics of which the settlement is made and that they contain botanical remains. Of course, these remains that date to the period in which the settlement was being built.
00:14:22:03 - 00:14:48:18
Corinna Rossi
So they don't tell anything about what happened later. But we made a study of the cultivation, so we realized that that's the fertility of the soil would sharply decline unless they adopted a crop rotation system. And even that wouldn't have been enough because only water would not be enough to sustain long term agricultural exploitation. So they had to add one for sure.
00:14:48:18 - 00:14:59:19
Corinna Rossi
Pigeon guano. In fact, we found the remains of pigeon Tower and clearly the pigeons were used to provide meat and also to provide guano for the cultivation.
00:14:59:23 - 00:15:00:22
Abigail Acton
Like a fertilizer?
00:15:00:24 - 00:15:01:17
Corinna Rossi
Absolutely.
00:15:01:17 - 00:15:01:23
Abigail Acton
Brilliant.
00:15:02:08 - 00:15:26:03
Corinna Rossi
And this was crucial for the inhabitants to keep cultivating the land. And in fact, we think that the reason why the site was abandoned was actually the fact that that the water table dropped. So where the aqueducts stopped providing enough water to irrigate all the fields. And this was probably the reason why the site was eventually abandoned after only one century of occupation.
00:15:26:05 - 00:15:39:08
Abigail Acton
What would have the impact of being culturally and I would say socioeconomically, of having an outpost of the Roman Empire there? Would they have been collecting taxes from trade routes? What was the impact of the fort?
00:15:39:14 - 00:16:14:17
Corinna Rossi
We realized that there is nothing that is non-Egyptian at the site. Allow me to explain. We realized, for instance, that the fortified settlement and the Fort were constructed using the ancient Egyptian unit of measurement and the dead were buried after Egyptian customs and religious culture. So there's nothing that really tells us about screen presence there. So clearly this is a group of Egyptians that were being resettled there by the Roman authorities.
00:16:14:17 - 00:16:40:20
Corinna Rossi
So of course, there must have been Roman soldiers or soldiers belonging to the Roman army. But they're likely to have been Egyptian themselves. And if you look at the fort and you look at it from a distance, you would think that it was full of armed soldiers guarding some sort of treasure inside. But actually out there, the real treasure were water and food water was available from the aqueduct and the food.
00:16:40:20 - 00:17:04:23
Corinna Rossi
So laboriously cultivated and collected was actually stored in the fort. So the fort was actually food storage, guarded probably by a small contingent of soldiers. And the role of the site was to guard one of the water sources along the caravan routes that led to the core of the oasis. And there were other similar sites all around the oasis.
00:17:05:00 - 00:17:39:19
Corinna Rossi
And then nearby there is a huge alum mine. So most probably the site was built there also to coordinate the exploitation of this island mine. And Alum was being traded to the valley and then to the core of the Roman Empire. Alum was a very important mineral used as a disinfectant to dye textiles and to as an additive to medicaments of various types.
00:17:39:20 - 00:17:47:10
Corinna Rossi
So it was an important commodity and the Kharga mines must have been quite important in antiquity.
00:17:47:16 - 00:18:00:19
Abigail Acton
Okay, thank you and thank you particularly for spending what alum was without me having to come in and ask you. I'm very grateful you did that. I think I'm going to have to reveal my ignorance here. Very good. That's fascinating. Do you have any questions at all for Corinna? Sofija, I think you had a question.
00:18:00:21 - 00:18:20:23
Sofija Stefanović
Corinna probably this question during the Roman time wouldn't be politically correct, but today I think that I can ask you about your perspective. Is this the whole, this process of modernization was beneficial for the people in Egypt, especially when it comes to the food production and supply.
00:18:21:00 - 00:18:49:14
Corinna Rossi
It's difficult to answer in a precise way because as I said, we found evidence only of Egyptian activities. So clearly, yes, in a way, because people who lived there were provided with enough resources to build a substantial settlement of the houses are quite large and luxurious houses. They are very nice they're not barracks in the middle of nowhere.
00:18:49:20 - 00:19:09:03
Corinna Rossi
So people were accommodated in a very nice and comfortable way. So yes, clearly, I think impression that if I can use these terms, make a very clear distinction. I think these were some sort of colonies. We're not talking about colonialism; we're talking about colonization.
00:19:09:09 - 00:19:34:05
Abigail Acton
Thank you very much. Excellent. Lovely. Sofija, I'm going to turn to you now. Your project was the BIRTH project, and that looked into the key biological and cultural mechanisms affecting fertility rates and infancy during the early middle Holocene, which is 10000 to 5000 BCE in the Balkans. May I ask you Sofija why did you feel that it was important to study the lives of prehistoric mothers and babies?
00:19:34:07 - 00:19:58:04
Sofija Stefanović
I think that motherhood topic is very important as survival of humans, depending on the quality of life of historic mothers and babies. But how they lived is almost unknown. So based on the small density of archeological remains during the first two and a half million years of human evolution, it was assumed that until 10,000 years ago.
00:19:58:04 - 00:20:32:11
Sofija Stefanović
So until the Neolithic, the number of people on Earth was very small. So before the Neolithic mothers probably gave birth to only one child. So in order to find out did Neolithic mothers really started to have more babies? So we investigated the biological evidence of the number of pregnancies and also how long babies were breastfed, what was supplementary food, as well as how Neolithic culture contributed to changes in motherhood.
00:20:32:13 - 00:20:35:21
Abigail Acton
And what was known about that before you started your project?
00:20:35:23 - 00:21:24:01
Sofija Stefanović
Actually, we do have any biological evidence about the number of pregnancies, so everything about the human demography was based on archaeological remains. So the main idea is to find the first biological evidences about the number of pregnancies, but also about all those other aspects which are relevant for the understanding of this important process of the fertility increase. So, for example, to investigate the number of pregnancies, we decided to count the number of so-called crisis lines so hidden in the root of our teeth.
00:21:24:03 - 00:22:09:12
Sofija Stefanović
So this is the tooth cementum and relation method which is based on two facts. First, each of us gets a new layer of tooth cementum every year. So when the root of tooth is cut with the diamond sow, and the thin section is made and looks under the microscope according to the number of lines of tooth cementum. So as same as with the rings on tree, we can say how old is and secondly more important previous clinical study of our politics in Germany on a woman with a known number of pregnancies showed that during the year of pregnancy, probably due to the calcium problems, this line is different.
00:22:09:12 - 00:22:47:08
Sofija Stefanović
So its shape changes and it's become deeper and irregular. So that allows us to investigate whether and to what extent the number of the so-called crises and number of pregnancies increase. And in the Neolithic woman. And second, when it comes to another important aspects of fertility, this is the duration of breastfeeding. So we decided to investigate the differences of the duration of breastfeeding in their Neolithic and in previous periods.
00:22:47:10 - 00:23:16:14
Abigail Acton
That's great. And I'd like to discuss the breastfeeding and the whole notion of the infancy and the weaning in a second. But I'd like to go back now to these rings in the teeth just a second to understand better. So they're almost like, you could say crisis rings. We could say maybe stress rings. So what we're talking about here is the impact of pregnancy on the body's ability to lay down calcium in the teeth because I believe we were also thinking in an earlier conversation that there might also be there was, in fact, a difference between the number of stress rings in male teeth.
00:23:16:16 - 00:23:22:02
Abigail Acton
More in the period before when we were more hunter gatherer is that the case?
00:23:22:03 - 00:23:50:10
Sofija Stefanović
Yeah, that's true. Our results because we didn't analyse only females. We also have, let's say, control group of males because those crisis lines also can appear, and we broke the bone and we have a problem with calcium or we have some kidney disease. So we cannot be sure that each line is only connected to the pregnancy. But in our control groups, it shows that males before the Neolithic have more crisis lines.
00:23:50:12 - 00:24:12:12
Sofija Stefanović
But in Neolithic it's look like that Neolithic groups are more peaceful life for males because we couldn't find so many crisis lines in male during the Neolithic in the contrary to the female when this number of crisis line excluded during the Neolithic.
00:24:12:12 - 00:24:30:24
Abigail Acton
Right and so that's another reason why you actually posit that that might be relating, in fact to the number of the number of pregnancies and births. And so the population exploded. We're seeing more and more stress rings in females, perhaps indicating number of pregnancies. And what was the cause? What do we imagine was the reason for this sudden increase in the number of pregnancies?
00:24:31:02 - 00:25:13:08
Sofija Stefanović
What we found in our sample in our micro region and what is also suggested by some other scientists that is also possible. Very important aspects of this increase are the changes in the way of life. So basically, Neolithic people introduced the milk of domesticated animals and plants. But what was very important to us to investigate is that all those innovations have influence to the duration of the breastfeeding because the breastfeeding is directly connected to fertility.
00:25:13:08 - 00:25:52:20
Sofija Stefanović
So as long as we are breast fed, it will be harder to came to a possibility for the new pregnancy. And we analyzed the duration of breast feeding of mothers or actually those children who lived 10,000 years ago and until 5000 years ago. And what we have found through the isotopic study is that children in Neolithic were breastfed for one year, even less, and that mothers before the Neolithic breastfed their children until age of four, sometimes even five years of age.
00:25:53:01 - 00:25:57:13
Abigail Acton
And what enabled this transition? Why was the breastfeeding period shorter in the Neolithic?
00:25:57:13 - 00:26:34:16
Sofija Stefanović
We think that this is the invention of new supplementary food. So the domestication of plant and animals allowed to make new type of porridge, so a new type of baby food appear. And this new type of baby food was available all year around, so it was not dependent on hand thing and gathering or conditions. So it was easier to use cereals and milk to make, you know, like today's mother also do the same with the supplementary food.
00:26:34:18 - 00:26:58:06
Sofija Stefanović
So we think this new type of porridge was actually something which allowed Mother to breastfeed shorter, but also for other members of community to participate more in the whole feeding process. Because with this new type of porridge, it was possible for fathers, grandmothers, younger children to feed the babies.
00:26:58:08 - 00:27:08:23
Abigail Acton
And what is causing you to think about the idea of alternative food? Yes, the food was existing, but have you found any artifacts that would pose the idea that there would be the porridge?
00:27:09:00 - 00:27:46:23
Sofija Stefanović
Yeah, we actually found through this isotopic study. So in the chemical composition of bones that weaning food would have changed with the Neolithic, so with more carbohydrates brought from the new plants. But what, what was very exciting for us because when we discovered that females started to breastfeed for such a short period of time, we were thinking what became formed in the archaeological record, which indicate this very important change which happened, and we found in Neolithic completely new type of tool appear.
00:27:47:00 - 00:28:16:22
Sofija Stefanović
Those are small bone tools made from the old bones of the cow and thousands of those small bones’ spoons appear. And we discovered thousands of teeth marks on those spoons. So we realized that Neolithic people not only invented new type of food, but also they produce very specific type of tool to feed the baby.
00:28:16:22 - 00:28:31:17
Sofija Stefanović
So this was very exciting for us because it shows that something really new and innovative did happen and it was followed. But also the, you know, new, new type equipment.
00:28:31:19 - 00:28:55:11
Abigail Acton
We like the idea of weaning equipment in the Neolithic. Isn't that great? Neolithic weaning equipment, little, tiny bone spoons with teeth marks on. Isn't that cool? Thank you so much, Sofija. It's fascinating. And of course, this then causes a population explosion. And we were quite precarious before, weren't we? The population was considered to be quite small, and we were fragile and vulnerable, and then suddenly, boom, it takes off and you're feeding babies with spoons.
00:28:55:13 - 00:29:00:07
Abigail Acton
Fantastic. Okay. Does anyone have any questions for Sofija? Bettina? Yes, please.
00:29:00:09 - 00:29:26:19
Bettina Schulz Paulsson
This is really interesting. And we noticed that in a Neolithic the demographic is exploding. And you really think because of this they could have more babies, more children, and the porridge is the reason why there were so many Neolithic people.
00:29:26:19 - 00:30:02:04
Sofija Stefanović
Finally, I think is one of the most important because it's allowed the shorter breast breastfeeding before the that it really was not easy to find some supplementary food. So as a hunter gatherer, you can provide the fish or you are very limited, you know, and you are dependent on the weather condition or the climatic conditions. So this was very important innovation like in the 19th century when new supplementary food was invented, the population growth happened. So because it's really directly connected to the fertility circles. So if you do not breastfeed until the age of three or four years, like in the Mesolithic, I think that was one of the most important.
00:30:02:04 - 00:30:07:22
Sofija Stefanović
I don't say the only one reason, but very important reason for the fertility increase.
00:30:07:22 - 00:30:20:15
Abigail Acton
And also, as you say, it enables communal caring for the babies. It's not just the mother that has to be then out of we could almost say a role of productivity for, you know, sourcing other food and so on. I mean, she's not tied to a small infant.
00:30:20:15 - 00:30:41:16
Sofija Stefanović
Yeah, definitely. This contributed to the important change in the whole system of this co-operative breeding. So we are co-operative breeders, so we are helping each other to raise the children. But with this new supplementary food, it was possible to upgrade this system and put it on a completely new, new, new level.
00:30:41:18 - 00:30:44:16
Abigail Acton
Fascinating. Wonderful. Yes, please, Corinna.
00:30:44:18 - 00:30:56:10
Corinna Rossi
And I suppose that also the fact that that people became steeply located in one place so they, they were not nomads anymore and they.
00:30:56:14 - 00:30:57:12
Corinna Rossi
Just stopped.
00:30:57:12 - 00:31:16:19
Corinna Rossi
In the same place and established a stable settlement. And that also helped raising more babies, I think because having one single place where food was stably kept and conserved and provided also help. There was part of the big picture, I suppose.
00:31:16:22 - 00:31:46:14
Sofija Stefanović
Definitely. I also think that houses were very important, especially because houses were heated so that have also important influence on the process of the thermoregulation. Because if you have thermally stable conditions like from the Neolithic, this is also important for the birth process and for the survival of the babies after the birth. So absolutely, the house life was very, very, very important for the success of humans.
00:31:46:14 - 00:32:01:08
Abigail Acton
Fantastic. Well, thank you very much, all three of you. I think that's absolutely fascinating. See how these various communities and cultures spun off in different directions once a new source of food was revealed and available. Thank you. I think that was just wonderful. Very much enjoyed it.
00:32:01:12 - 00:32:03:10
Bettina Schulz Paulsson
Thank you very much. Thank you.
00:32:03:12 - 00:32:04:12
Corinna Rossi
Thank you very much.
00:32:04:12 - 00:32:08:14
Sofija Stefanović
Thank you so much for this opportunity. You are all very welcome.
00:32:08:19 - 00:32:09:03
Abigail Acton
Thanks.
00:32:09:09 - 00:32:13:24
All
Thank you. Bye bye. Bye.
00:32:14:01 - 00:32:42:16
Abigail Acton
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Abigail Acton
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Abigail Acton
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Insights and ideas Food makes or breaks communities: a change in the source of the food; a supply of nutritious prey within reach if you can just get to it; innovations in agriculture, and sophisticated means of irrigation that turn desert into pasture – all have had far-reaching impacts. Our three guests, with the help of support from the EU, tell us how food was a driver for social change for three very different communities in antiquity. Bettina Schulz Paulsson(opens in new window), an associate professor of Archaeology at the University of Gothenburg(opens in new window), Sweden, specialises in research related to the Stone Age. Her interests encompass seafaring, megaliths, prehistoric whaling and scientific dating and methods, which she explored through the NEOSEA project. Corinna Rossi(opens in new window) is associate professor of Egyptology at the Polytechnic of Milan(opens in new window). Her research focuses on the relationship between architecture and mathematics in ancient Egypt. Rossi’s L.I.F.E. project explores the antiquities of Egypt’s Western Desert. Sofija Stefanović(opens in new window) is professor of Physical Anthropology and Bioarchaeology in the Department of Archaeology at the University of Belgrade(opens in new window), Serbia and the coordinator of the BIRTH project. She is interested in the prehistoric patterns of fertility and the influence of the duration of breastfeeding on children’s health in the Neolithic period.
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