Commissioner Busquin talks to CORDIS News about the importance of promoting women and science
In the run-up the European Commission event 'research and gender' in Brussels on 8 and 9 November, EU Research Commissioner Philippe Busquin spoke to CORDIS News about the importance of the women and science issue and the Commission's activities in this field. CORDIS News: It appears that the Commission did not reach the 40 per cent target mentioned in the 1999 communication. Why do you think this is and how do you intend to persuade more women to participate in the next Framework programme? Philippe Busquin: You are right, the Commission did not reach the 40 per cent target that it set itself in 1999 for female membership of advisory bodies. But this is the question of the glass that is half full or half empty. Even compared to the little we knew about the participation of women in the Fourth Framework programme (FP4), we can see that the participation of women in FP5 has risen dramatically. During the whole period of FP4, women accounted for six per cent of all monitoring panel members. In 2000, the equivalent figure is 30 per cent, and in the monitoring panels for environment, non-nuclear energy, human potential and international cooperation, the 40 per cent target has been met. The newly established European research advisory board (EURAB) comprises 31 per cent of women, to be compared with the 0 per cent or 8 per cent of the earlier advisory bodies such as the Industrial research and development advisory committee (IRDAC) and the European science and technology assembly (ESTA). Regarding the expert evaluation panels, for 1999 and 2000, the proportion of women is 22.4 per cent. This is less than 40 per cent, but we should bear in mind that this result was achieved from of a pool of experts where only 16 per cent are women. And there again, there are discrepancies in different areas. In some activities (strategic analysis of specific political issues, public awareness), the participation of women has been as high as 56 per cent. The ethical review, the small and medium sized enterprise (SME) activities and the Human potential programme involved a significant number of women in 2000: 49, 48 and 37 per cent respectively. In the Quality of life programme, women's participation in expert evaluation panels has risen from 24 per cent in 1999 and 2000 to 35 per cent in 2001. That being said, if we want to sustain progress across all areas, we need to encourage more women to apply to be evaluators. I am well aware that it may be difficult for women with caring responsibilities to spend a whole week in Brussels. But these evaluation sessions provide a very good overview on the cutting edge of research, on how to submit a proposal, as well as creating networking opportunities with other members of the panels. The evaluation experience is an invaluable opportunity for a researcher to develop a European Union perspective. CORDIS News: What is your reaction to the results of the 'gender impact assessment studies', to be presented at the conference on 8 and 9 November? PB: It is striking to see that the gender dimension seems to have a propensity to be invisible. Even when relevant, it is not taken into account. These studies converge in showing that there is a tendency to forget about gender when it is not explicitly monitored. The Commission needs to integrate concern for gender equality into each phase of the implementation cycle. This does not mean putting gender everywhere, but ensuring that it is taken into consideration when needed. I was also impressed by the link made in these studies between gender and diversity. Introducing gender into the analysis leads to the opening up of broad categories, such as the young, users, citizens, and households. It also brings into consideration the differences in behaviours, interests, and needs within these groups, instead of considering them as homogeneous entities. It challenges the scientific rhetoric, which aims to describe reality in terms of universal principles. More will be said at the conference, but on the whole these studies are very challenging. We will look very carefully at the recommendations and at integrating them into the next Framework programme. I want to congratulate all the colleagues involved in the studies. I know a great deal of effort was involved but this work represents an important tool for raising awareness in DG Research. CORDIS News: In which areas has the most progress been made and which areas are still lagging behind? What action is the Commission taking to get women involved in under-represented fields? PB: The Commission targets its activities across all fields of research. The 'area' question is difficult. It refers to horizontal segregation, i.e. there are more women in biology and medicine than in engineering. It is a policy objective to reduce horizontal segregation and encourage women to enter fields where they are under-represented. On the other hand, it is recognised that the vertical segregation occurs across all areas. Hence, at the top of the hierarchy, the percentage of women is dramatically lower than the equivalent percentage in the pool at the start of their career. Vertical segregation is also a policy concern. We are developing indicators to monitor these two forms of segregation, horizontal and vertical, as well as their interactions. These indicators are not yet available at European Union level however. The policy objective is to produce gender equality in research across all disciplines and levels. CORDIS News: How can the Commission influence Member States' national approaches? PB: The Commission, with the Helsinki Group on women and science, aims to provide Member States with a forum to exchange experience, build indicators and benchmarks, and tools to foster cooperation on this issue among Member States. The European Union dimension should allow each Member State to strengthen its own action, on the basis of the lessons learned in the European Union context from the other Member States. The associated countries are also members of the Helsinki Group. This allows us to include the promotion of women in science from an enlargement perspective. We are going to launch a platform for networks of women scientists in order to support the efforts of these networks in shaping research policy. Last but not least, by setting up expert groups the Commission is providing a tool to develop common strategic analysis and recommendations for all stakeholders. This has been the case with the now well known ETAN report (science policies in the European Union: promoting excellence through mainstreaming gender equality), and will be applied to two new issues that require further analysis and development: the situation of women scientists in the private sector, and the situation of women scientists in Central and Eastern Europe and the Baltic States. These two expert groups will formulate recommendations to the Commission, but also to the other stakeholders at European Union and national levels. In connection with the link between policy at European Union and national levels, allow me to point out that while Member States urged the Commission to reach the 40 per cent target in the resolution on science and society and on women and science, adopted at the 26 June Research council, they did not commit themselves to this same target. CORDIS News: Would you consider establishing a league table of best practice in relation to this area? PB: The Helsinki Group is about to finalise a European report on policies implemented at national level, which will include national statistical profiles. The members of the group themselves insisted on the necessity of carrying out a common critical assessment of the policies implemented. The Commission supports this work fully, but does not intend to give 'points' to the Member States. The promotion of gender equality is very much enshrined in the national, cultural background. There are different ways to tackle the promotion of women in science and this diversity should be maintained. However, the Commission intends to support cooperation between Member States and associated countries in the field of promoting women in science. CORDIS News: What do you feel about having quotas or positive discrimination? PB: In an ideal world, quotas or positive discrimination should not be necessary. But it may be useful on a transitional basis to change the culture in an environment, or to compensate for implicit bias playing against the targeted population. One has to distinguish between quotas and the positive concept of discrimination. A quota may be necessary to ensure that a group or panel satisfies multidimensional equilibrium, in terms of geographical, disciplinary or organisational backgrounds. In this respect, gender deserves at least the same level of attention as these other dimensions. Positive discrimination by which I mean actions exclusively reserved for women is a controversial policy approach. There are pros and cons towards it. I would prefer to develop policy devices accessible to both men and women, but taking into account women's lives and women's situations. It is about changing the norm, as put by the ETAN group and bringing the policy closer to women scientist's lives, instead of considering that the burden of conciliating their different lives rests only on their shoulders and is a matter for their private life. It is a matter of policy to allow women to fulfil the multiple roles they are still assigned to in society, as well as to progress towards more equality between men and women. CORDIS News: How closely are you working with the DG Education and Culture and other authorities to ensure an adequate number of women is available for science and research? PB: There is a very good cooperation between Commissioner Reding and myself, as well as between DG Education and Culture and DG Research. The strategic objectives of the European research area and the European education area are to be pursued together. The link between the under-representation of women in research and the need to encourage girls to embrace scientific studies is fully recognised. In Uppsala, there was an informal joint meeting of education and research ministers. The gender dimension was carefully addressed. We are working together with DG Education and Culture on this subject. At the 'Gender and Research' conference organised by DG Research on 8 and 9 November, there will be a session concentrating on the education dimension of the 'women and science' activities. Furthermore, in the strategy to make science more attractive to young people, the gender dimension will be very consciously integrated.