Celebrare le donne nella scienza
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CORDIScovery podcast- Episode #32 - Women in Science
This is an AI transcription.
00:00:10:05 - 00:00:16:00
Abigail Acton
This is CORDIScovery.
00:00:16:02 - 00:00:37:21
Abigail Acton
Hello and welcome to this episode of CORDIScovery with me, Abigail Acton. It's December and many of us are about to put our feet up and think of seasonal holidays. And since we're on the subject of celebration, let's celebrate women in science history. Our three female researchers, whose work has been supported by EU science funding, come from very different fields.
00:00:37:23 - 00:01:00:06
Abigail Acton
Here to share their work and their ideas on how to make careers and research more accessible to other women are Elena Ghezzo, a fellow of Ca’ Foscari University of Venice in the Department of Environmental Science Informatics and Statistics. Elena is particularly interested in screening fossils using spectral imaging and in the distribution and extinction patterns of large carnivores. Before the Holocene.
00:01:00:12 - 00:01:01:04
Abigail Acton
Hi, Elena.
00:01:01:09 - 00:01:02:20
Elena Ghezzo
Hi, everybody.
00:01:02:22 - 00:01:20:18
Abigail Acton
Camilla Pierella is currently an assistant professor in the Department of Informatics Bioengineering, Robotics and Systems Engineering at the University of Geneva. Her main research activities are related to neural control of movement, robotics for rehabilitation and body machine interfaces. Hello, Camilla.
00:01:20:20 - 00:01:22:12
Camilla Pierella
Hello, Abigail.
00:01:22:14 - 00:01:45:14
Abigail Acton
Erika Hausenblas is professor of applied mathematics at the University of Leoben in Austria. She studies how to cast stick systems characterized by randomness and uncertainty. Impact the modeling of a wide range of phenomena such as weather patterns, stock markets and biological systems. Welcome, Erika. Hello. Nice to meet you. And you as well. I'm going to turn to Elena first.
00:01:45:15 - 00:02:09:22
Abigail Acton
The refined project uses cutting edge software and t spectral sensors mounted on drones and satellites to identify likely fossil sites and to prevent the destruction of undiscovered fossil heritage by humans and by climate change. Elena, can you break down what I've just outlined? So new tools and methods as the refined project bringing to the table to further our discovery and protection of fossils.
00:02:09:24 - 00:02:37:21
Elena Ghezzo
So basically the idea is that because there is a lot of innovation about fossils and how to study fossils in many ways, but there is no innovation regarding how to find new forces and lands. My idea was to take a satellite images, the imagery that we can use to see land and cities and streets and everything that is exposed on the surface.
00:02:37:23 - 00:03:13:03
Elena Ghezzo
The idea was to apply the same methodology to find the actual fossils that are exposed or the same way in this Arctic area like in Arizona or in their jade or in places that are far away. So difficult to reach, difficult to organize this expedition and to go there and collect the fossils. And once you find forces there in person, it's difficult to manage how to transport and how to move the fossils from the ground to the museum where you can study them.
00:03:13:05 - 00:03:40:23
Elena Ghezzo
So the idea was to collect the forces and the information from the ground before to go there, before to organize everything. So I use the properties, the optical properties of fossils. What does it mean? It means that I took the images. And from the images I can detect something that we call the spectral signature. So it's basically the difference between the fossil and the ground.
00:03:41:03 - 00:03:54:07
Elena Ghezzo
And in this way, we can map the surface and have an idea of what we should expect once we will reach places that are very, very far from our lab.
00:03:54:09 - 00:04:18:02
Abigail Acton
It's fascinating, isn't it? Because not only are these places inaccessible, but you're also it gives you a clear idea of whether it's worth launching an expedition to go out there in the first place. And also the topographical constraints with regards, as you say, to shipping the specimen back as well. Yeah, I know. Very, very interesting. It's one of these wonderful ideas which when you say it seems enormously logical and one wonders why it wasn't done before.
00:04:18:03 - 00:04:24:19
Abigail Acton
Have you any idea why this hasn't been done before? All these wonderful images of the Earth's surface? And yeah, why not look for fossils that way?
00:04:24:21 - 00:05:06:15
Elena Ghezzo
We didn't have the technology. So the resolution, the high resolution we needed to detect the source. Is that okay? They are big. They are ten meters long, But they are just ten meters long. It was not available before 2014. Now we have at least two satellites able to recording images that reach 50 more or less 50 centimeters in spatial resolution and the reach, of course, in the multispectral region, we reach two meters of resolution, which is great, and enable us basically to catch the forces on the ground.
00:05:06:17 - 00:05:15:06
Abigail Acton
Well, it's obviously wonderful. And how does this actually being put into effect? Have you used this now in the field.
00:05:15:08 - 00:05:47:15
Elena Ghezzo
By use it? We try to map the distribution of fossils in Arizona at the Petrified Forest, which is a national park, and that means that we cannot walk freely on the ground to detect each of the pieces that are exposed. And so we try and the potential of this method using that national monument, and we are able to detect up to 90% of the fossils exposed in the desert face where we test the method.
00:05:47:17 - 00:05:54:21
Abigail Acton
Yes, well, that's very thorough. That's an excellent result. Fantastic. That's super. Why did you get involved in this field?
00:05:54:23 - 00:06:04:11
Elena Ghezzo
So I always love to match different field of expertise. So I started as a paleontologist and I was interested on the edges.
00:06:04:15 - 00:06:05:20
Abigail Acton
What's this, Elena?
00:06:05:21 - 00:06:40:24
Elena Ghezzo
The geographic information. So everything that goes from the map to your GPS. So your phone and location with coordinates goes under the name of a gas, basically general reference and information systems. So I basically match this individual expertise I developed during my first year of my career. And so this idea just pop up in my brain and I decided to pursue it and to try and the potential of it.
00:06:41:01 - 00:06:42:00
Abigail Acton
that sounds actually brilliant.
00:06:42:03 - 00:07:18:02
Elena Ghezzo
Basically, I'm going back from satellite to Earth and then using the optical properties and these multispectral and hyperspectral method to detect fossils that we already have in museums, to detect day preservation to monitor it, day preservation to be able to recognize materials that have been added to the fossils. And we know nothing about those. So probably the possibly the heritage can be double checking.
00:07:18:04 - 00:07:18:19
Abigail Acton
I see.
00:07:18:21 - 00:07:56:16
Elena Ghezzo
The way we restore and we maintain the collection today is very, very different from a few decades ago. So it's important to keep trace of it. And for example, for to recognize fake fossils that are quite important because if you have a fake fossil is a fake species and make misunderstanding and errors in the description of evolution. So it's very, very important to be sure that the fossil you are dealing with is original and was collected properly.
00:07:56:22 - 00:07:57:21
Abigail Acton
And is authentic.
00:07:57:24 - 00:07:59:06
Elena Ghezzo
Yeah, absolutely.
00:07:59:12 - 00:08:19:14
Abigail Acton
Well, thank you very much, Elena. That's fascinating work. Thanks for explaining that. And we're going to hear more from you a little bit later when we have our general discussion. But I'm going to turn to Camilla now. Camilla, the Rima project created a novel approach to the neuro motor rehabilitation of patients with multiple sclerosis. Ms.. Involving body machine interfaces known as bogies.
00:08:19:16 - 00:08:22:24
Abigail Acton
What are the current go to therapies for patients with? Ms. Please.
00:08:22:24 - 00:08:59:03
Camilla Pierella
Camilla So currently one innovative approach for rehabilitation in multiple sclerosis can be apart from the classical. Physical therapy can be like using robots, like, you know, exoskeletons for upper limb or for lower limb to help regain some mobility for walking or for doing any kind of daily activities. What it's novel of this approach was that instead of using bulky robots and very expensive technologies, we wanted to use very low cost sensors that you can put on the body parts that you want to rehabilitate.
00:08:59:07 - 00:09:36:13
Camilla Pierella
In my case, I was focusing on the upper limb and you can do like some exercises without the burden of having a robot or having extra weight on your arms. And you can also record not only movement but also like muscle activation and things like these. So you can have like a very deep information on the mobility of these people and how they changed through the disease because unfortunately, multiple sclerosis is a daily changing disease, unfortunately.
00:09:36:18 - 00:09:57:22
Abigail Acton
Right. I understand from what you've told me before about this project, is that you are able also to to measure the impact of training, physiotherapy, training and so on. You mentioned something about the identification and characterize of biomarkers of motor impairment at different levels of the nervous system. So what exactly were you talking about when you were thinking about that?
00:09:57:24 - 00:10:01:01
Abigail Acton
What do you mean by the biomarkers and the characterization?
00:10:01:04 - 00:10:35:23
Camilla Pierella
Yeah, with biomarkers, I mean some specific features that you can extract from different signals that you can record from the body and with different level. I mean that I can go from the central nervous system. Indeed, we were doing MRI, which is magnetic resonance imaging, and with that we could acquire and measure the structural and functional changes that can occur in the brain before and after the rehabilitation training.
00:10:36:00 - 00:11:03:03
Camilla Pierella
And so like from the brain scan, we could assess the changes in their more than in their structural, in their functional link that you connect between different brain regions. And then we like move more in the periphery. So like we measure like some changes that you're going to have in the spinal cord because we were doing MRI scan also in the cervical region of the spine and then measuring also the key demanded.
00:11:03:06 - 00:11:46:03
Camilla Pierella
So we would assess changes then hopefully improvement in the movement, for example, of the arm and what we wanted to investigate more. And it was also the proprioception either not exceptionally this sense that we have of our body in space. Now, without looking my hand, I can immediately tell you where my hand is. And so what we found, like our preliminary results were very encouraging and we found that with the motor training you have motor improvement, but you also have improvement in progress actions because we were running test to assess these problems at big scale seen in people with multiple sclerosis.
00:11:46:05 - 00:11:52:24
Abigail Acton
Okay. And this is all down to this, this new way of using the bombs that are helping people to rehabilitate.
00:11:52:24 - 00:12:23:09
Camilla Pierella
Exactly. Exactly. Because they're training with the Bomi at the beginning. It's not very intuitive because we are, let's say, transforming in a not usual way. The improvement of your body in the control of a cursor on the screen that allow you to play video games. Okay, We are not doing a transformation, let's say 1 to 1, but we give the subject some freedom that push him to explore various movement.
00:12:23:09 - 00:12:37:22
Camilla Pierella
And by this combination of movements that actually make the people more conscious about these motor abilities and about actually the positioning of his body in space. So that's why I'm saying we are not only training moderate, but also through perception.
00:12:38:02 - 00:12:55:03
Abigail Acton
Excellent. You must be really, really thrilled with your results because the project is really showing positive results, isn't it? Yes. Excellent. That's fantastic. Are you noticing that other rehabilitation centers, other people who are specialized in rehabilitation, are interested in these exercises and this training that you have developed?
00:12:55:05 - 00:13:18:07
Camilla Pierella
Yes. Yes. This study started in the in general in the hospital. It's currently ongoing because we managed to find some extra findings after the end of the military so that the project is still ongoing. And I mean, we we see that. I mean, it's potential and it's a longer success, hopefully.
00:13:18:09 - 00:13:42:19
Abigail Acton
Yeah. Excellent. That's really good. Thank you very much. That's very, very interesting. Thank you. I'm going to turn to Erika now. Erika Chemotaxis is the orientated movement of cells in response to a chemical gradient. Now, the stop that project was curious to see what happens when this is perturbed by a random external factor termed stochastic noise. Now, doing so means modelers can characterize dynamic behavior more accurately.
00:13:42:19 - 00:14:26:08
Abigail Acton
So for the non mathematicians listening in and I count myself as one of those. Can you explain what stochastic partial differential equations are, please? Erica
00:14:26:10 - 00:15:04:08
Erika Hausenblas
Okay. Usually you you want to describe the nature like fluid or biochemical systems and these things. So you describe by kind of equations, normally partial differential equation or differential equation where you bring into relationship the state of the system and the short time the derivative up to the time that means a short time changing of the system, how it’s changed in a short time. These are you called differential equations. And what I'm looking for is if you put then some randomness into this system, what is changing? Can you describe or pop that up some certain phenomena which does not exist? And this deterministic chaos is a difference. And if yes, that's fine. And secondly, how to model these kind of stochastic system numerically, usually you do not have really analytic tools to model them or say something.
00:15:04:14 - 00:15:30:22
Erika Hausenblas
So you need you need a numerical modeling to see what is happening to the system, in which direction it moves, and to see what's happening.
00:15:30:24 - 00:15:31:02
Abigail Acton
Sure. Okay. Can you that’s that’s fine. That’s excellent. Could you give us an example of of a particular system that that lends itself to this type of of modeling and examination?
00:15:31:04 - 00:16:06:07
Erika Hausenblas
Okay. A typical example of climate toxins is slime mold. This is a really nice example. So a slime mold, if there is not sufficiently much food there, it produces a chemical substance that attracts the other cells or the other slime Mold says. So the slime mold are crack gates and form a kind of of the peak. In this way, if there is some wind, it often takes a top off the peak and they come to another place where it could be a nicer environment and they find some food again.
00:16:06:09 - 00:16:24:22
Abigail Acton
So what we have is a group of cells that when they have insufficient food, will go higher and higher group together and call more cells together and they'll go higher and higher so that the top can get blown away to somewhere that might actually provide more food. I mean, that in itself is a small miracle. I don't know about you guys, but I think that in itself is a small miracle.
00:16:24:24 - 00:16:32:05
Abigail Acton
So that that's an example of chemotaxis, as you said. So, Erika, what you are interested in, I think, is the inherent randomness of that.
00:16:32:07 - 00:16:56:11
Erika Hausenblas
Yes, this comes if usually if you dare, by four mobile biological systems, the mathematical equation, it’s it’s based on the Santa limit law and you kick out in the taking the limit of all cells which go going to infinity that odds the randomness or all these fluctuation which normally happen.
00:16:56:13 - 00:17:24:07
Erika Hausenblas
So usually one has a deterministic equation. That means if you know the starting point, you know that and point, that's it. But this kind of determinism in in nature or in life all the time, something is happening. You have foreseen or even the molecules they are or the slime says do not go really the same way. How it's described mathematically.
00:17:24:08 - 00:17:51:22
Erika Hausenblas
So I put back into the system the randomness. And the interesting point is you have new phenomena, new things are happening. And yeah, that's that's a quite interesting issue.
00:17:51:24 - 00:17:52:05
Abigail Acton
Yes, absolutely. And also it makes it much more realistic because, I mean, life is full of of a degree of random things. I was going to say random course, but I know chaos actually has a specific meaning in this area, so I’ll stick with the word random, has a whole load of random factors that do kick in.
00:17:52:11 - 00:18:19:17
Abigail Acton
Yeah. Okay. That's great. Erika, what got you involved in this field of mathematics? Because after all, it's very biological. Your application is is to other other areas like like biology, for example. But also, I would imagine, climate and weather patterns and all sorts of things. So what got you involved in this area?
00:18:19:19 - 00:18:50:23
Abigail Acton
Okay, I’m mathematician, but I like application of math in biology or chemistry and and also of physics. And in this way, first I have the feeling my research is useful, so I'm not really in tower in according to our thinking about my own things. And the next is often you have really interesting systems, but the people in biology and so they often try to model it or write down the equation, but they do not really reflect about it. And often they do not have really in a rigorous proof.
00:18:51:00 - 00:18:55:18
Abigail Acton
Okay, so you feel that from a mathematical perspective you can provide that rigor?
00:18:55:21 - 00:19:20:23
Erika Hausenblas
Yes. Yes, I can really investigate then maybe design or I'll think of algos and how you can really model it numerically such that what you get after the on the computer and what you see that this is really the equation or model's equation and how quick is it convergent and these things. So yes.
00:19:21:00 - 00:19:41:14
Abigail Acton
Yeah. So basically your your equations in your modeling are actually reflecting more what you see as a result of the phenomenon itself. That's excellent. Thank you very much. Well, as I mentioned, very, very different domains, but one thing you all have in common and me as well, is that we're all women. And so I want to talk now in a slightly different vein from our normal CORDIScovery podcast.
00:19:41:14 - 00:20:04:11
Abigail Acton
So I want to bring you together to talk a little bit about how we can make the the career of a scientific research more accessible to women in general. So I'm going to ask you a question and then I'd like to call on you one by one to answer. And I think that one of the things that perhaps would be really interesting to know would be if you could talk to your 18 year old self, what advice would you give her?
00:20:04:13 - 00:20:12:17
Abigail Acton
And Elena, I'm going to come to you first for an answer. What would you say to yourself at 18, knowing what you know now?
00:20:12:19 - 00:20:44:22
Elena Ghezzo
I have a lot to say to her. But the priority I think it's to search for a good mentor or someone who can really understand your perspective and your wishes and someone who has experience in the field how you want to approach in a in a way that can suggest to you the good way, the good match for you to to deal with, to persuade and to reach your goals.
00:20:44:22 - 00:20:45:18
Elena Ghezzo
Basically.
00:20:45:20 - 00:20:56:18
Abigail Acton
That's a very nice idea. Our mentor, I think, is very important, my other guests, Camilla. Erika, do you did you have any good mentors at the beginning of your scientific career? Anybody that you could talk to and trust? Camilla
00:20:56:20 - 00:21:37:18
Camilla Pierella
Yes, I feel very lucky because in every step of my career, I was receiving, like good suggestions from from my mentor and independently, like from the sex. I had made mostly male mentors, and now I have a female mentor. But they all gave me very, very pretty shoes, suggestions and indication. And one thing that they found like very, very helpful was that they always gave me freedom and always made me do my choice.
00:21:37:20 - 00:21:45:03
Abigail Acton
They didn't try and constrain you. Yeah, yeah. No, no, no. And in fact, Camilla, what would you say to yourself at 18?
00:21:45:05 - 00:22:14:22
Camilla Pierella
That is difficult question but the very first thing that it's coming to my mind is that I would tell her to be less shy and like more brave in making decisions that bring you on the other side of the of the globe. But despite of that, I also tell her that the good job that you did it.
00:22:14:22 - 00:22:19:11
Abigail Acton
So yeah, that's good. Erika, what would you say to your 18 year old self?
00:22:19:13 - 00:22:56:14
Erika Hausenblas
Okay, I say there is no free lunch. That means you have yen. You have to work for it and to get it and you have to. You should not hope that anybody picks you up and so on. So for example, I myself, I really my first project I is after my idea year old it and I submitted it because I was not really successful as an application so I just took it in my hands and wrote abroad, worked and got a scholarship. That was my is the beginning.
00:22:56:16 - 00:23:12:11
Abigail Acton
There you go. So not being put off by initial, initial, perhaps blockage, but keeping pushing, pushing, pushing, And my next question to you, three of you again, one by one is, as a woman working in science, what would be the one thing that you would change to make the profession more accessible to other women?
00:23:12:11 - 00:23:17:06
Abigail Acton
So, Elena, I'm going to start again with you. What would be the one thing that would make it more accessible for other women, do you think?
00:23:17:09 - 00:23:55:08
Elena Ghezzo
Let's say that I am on the side of men so pushing to be a good father or a good husband is the best way to introduce or to make women free to feel themselves in science. So one of the things I always put a on the table is it should be mandatory for fathers to have paternal leave after the baby is born because a father is has important to has a mother right after the baby is born.
00:23:55:08 - 00:24:24:03
Elena Ghezzo
So why to make a difference? Of course, we have different rules inside the house. We provide milk they cannot but nowaday. They also can buy milk, basically. And and do everything they can to match to have a good match with the baby, which is very important. Also, when the child grow up, basically to have a good example in the house.
00:24:24:05 - 00:24:33:10
Abigail Acton
Yeah, absolutely. That's what men can do to help to to ensure that women can lead fulfilling careers and what about mutual support that other women can give each other?
00:24:33:10 - 00:25:02:07
Elena Ghezzo
So when I for example, when I came back from the U.S., I found a very welcome environment with the other women, my colleagues doing the same experience. I was doing the same problem, the same issues related to a lot of change of move in and from one country to another, from one university to the other. So that was very, very important.
00:25:02:08 - 00:25:28:17
Elena Ghezzo
And the second thing is very important to make women feeling safe in the field of science and supported by the environment itself is to not looking at your colleagues are like competitors, but look at the other women. So as a supporter, because we have exactly the same problems.
00:25:28:19 - 00:25:39:23
Abigail Acton
Camilla I know that you've also been to the U.S., haven't you? What was the difference? Did you notice any difference in culture between the pursuit of a scientific career, either side of the Atlantic? How did that go going up?
00:25:40:01 - 00:26:04:11
Camilla Pierella
Like Elena said before, I had the same experience of her when when I came back from the US to Europe, I got like a lot of support from my colleagues. And imagine that in my lab, the one where I'm now and the one where it was in Switzerland, there were like many women like me, so I cannot see anything like bad.
00:26:04:11 - 00:26:18:19
Camilla Pierella
They always found support from other women and I really believe, like Elena said before, that these are like the most important thing to see in your colleague. Like a friend, not in any.
00:26:18:21 - 00:26:30:04
Abigail Acton
Yeah. Or a competitor. No, indeed. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And Erika, what did you find with regards to cultural attitudes regarding women in mathematics? Are you seeing anything?
00:26:30:06 - 00:26:47:16
Erika Hausenblas
First, I have the impression that really in math, there are less women than in biology. And these things. Secondly, if I come to it and it concerns the modern one woman, then Austria or Germany or even UK, they are less woman.
00:26:47:17 - 00:27:12:16
Erika Hausenblas
And I once even was in UK. It didn't go on like a conference. They were two woman out of 40. And I see those are where I'm teaching. I have a course for example in mechanical engineers they are 35 and one woman. And I would say, for example, when I got my professorship, most say they didn't, many of them did not really congratulated.
00:27:12:16 - 00:27:37:01
Abigail Acton
The first reaction was, what are you doing the for children? It will be complicated. It it and so on. And then I stopped turning it or saying, I'm. I got a professorship just because I. Yeah, it's, it's and maybe also some think if I gotten divorced and were applying for an position I just know nobody told about it.
00:27:37:01 - 00:27:44:15
Erika Hausenblas
I'm a single mother because I was sure I will not get any position in this kind of right Austria or something.
00:27:44:17 - 00:27:58:13
Abigail Acton
Whereas a divorced father might not have to keep quiet about that. Very interesting. Thank you, Erika, rather. That's very interesting indeed. And congratulations on your professorship. We all of us congratulate you sincerely. That's a huge thing.
00:27:58:15 - 00:28:16:00
Abigail Acton
Okay, wonderful. And I'd just like to ask you a final question here. It's a classic one, I'm afraid, almost clichéd. I'd like to just think a little bit about work life balance commitments, because it's it's obviously something that is a challenge for for all of us. So how could that be helped, do you think? Erika, will turn to you first?
00:28:16:02 - 00:28:23:09
Abigail Acton
What could be done to make the life of a female scientific researcher easier with regards to work life commitments, balancing those?
00:28:23:14 - 00:28:44:19
Erika Hausenblas
Yeah, I think first for children like kindergarten and these things that this is easier. And I do not know if many things were for my colleagues, but I guess it's the whole society too, where you have to fight against it. It’s not only the university
00:28:44:21 - 00:28:46:00
Abigail Acton
fight against what? Erika
00:28:46:04 - 00:29:20:08
Erika Hausenblas
I think it's a lot of small things. For example, I wanted to put in the tax money for my babysitter and which is possibly for babysitters necessary. And the tax office, it kicked out this of my tax declaration since it's not necessary, I could have taken another less demanding job up, for example, to give my daughter in the school, which you would be more comfortable of this my mother and the organization I had to fight each year.
00:29:20:13 - 00:29:22:17
Erika Hausenblas
It's they are small things mostly.
00:29:22:23 - 00:29:33:16
Abigail Acton
Yeah. No, it's not that small. And it also gets tiring every time to have to keep doing it. Indeed, yeah. Elena, what would you think about work life balance? How could that be improved?
00:29:33:16 - 00:30:04:00
Elena Ghezzo
If I can say it's a mess, Yeah. So to improve the work life balance is to give more flexibility to women to manage the private life. So, for example, I'm very productive at home and it doesn't mean I'm working less. I'm actually working more efficiently. And because I'm trying to do something at home to like a washing machine, go, let's the washing machine goes.
00:30:04:02 - 00:30:44:08
Elena Ghezzo
It's only 5 minutes. It's like a coffee break and Italian coffee bake break, let's say. And so it's it's very it's, it's increase the effectiveness of my work and my daily work. I mean also of course, improve the services available for women to manage children's like the daycare and everything. So for example in Italy, daycare is open until 4 p.m. That doesn't make sense because nobody finish work at 4 p.m. and we need we have to work until 6 p.m. at least.
00:30:44:10 - 00:31:08:13
Elena Ghezzo
And if you don't have a babysitter or a grandma or a grandfather picking up the baby, you have to live, work earlier than your colleagues that are usually male. And that means they can go ahead and work for additional 2 hours per day at the end of the month is a huge difference. And this is just an example.
00:31:08:13 - 00:31:30:21
Elena Ghezzo
And of course, you have to have support in your house with your husband to be organized. Yeah, but it's not always the case. And there is no balance between the effort you put together in the family. And it's a mother. It's it's a fact. We can now say, okay, we can divide. It is 50%. Since that was the case.
00:31:30:23 - 00:31:34:06
Abigail Acton
Community have any observations of with regards to work life balance?
00:31:34:12 - 00:31:56:16
Camilla Pierella
Well, I think that that is one key word that Erika and I already said, which is support that unfortunately, sometimes you receive support from like your partner, if you have one. If you have one. I mean, I don't have children right now, so I cannot you know, and I understand. I mean, I can try to understand my take.
00:31:56:16 - 00:32:30:13
Camilla Pierella
I am not living the same problem as in America, but I'm sure that having a good support from your partner might definitely help and from the institution. Of course, I think that Colby taught us that much. Working can be an option and should be an option because if you want to work from home, you and you I mean, you don't have a job that it requires you to like to do operations in your workplace, then you should be allowed to stay home.
00:32:30:15 - 00:32:42:20
Camilla Pierella
So that in that way you can improve the work life balance and not be, you know, 80% of your time at work and 20 at home.
00:32:42:22 - 00:32:59:21
Abigail Acton
Excellent points all of you are making. Thank you very much. So to wind up, does anybody have one piece of advice that they think that they would give to family members, perhaps partners at this time when Christmas often puts an awful lot of pressure on women? Yes. Elena? Yeah, I.
00:32:59:21 - 00:33:28:23
Elena Ghezzo
Have a an idea, actually, because we talk a lot about how to work together with our partner and the important to make women feel less stressed and make them laugh. And I always see how high and women kind of increase the serenity, the happiness in the house and then your house when they laugh a lot. And I love that feeling.
00:33:28:23 - 00:34:10:23
Elena Ghezzo
So I want to put down a challenge for all the men listening because it's close to Christmas time and we are all busy running from one place to another. It might be a funny, let's say, funny to create a situation when women your women, I mean your partner, your mom, your friend, your sister, or just a stranger you see every day going to work or places just to put down ideas to make that person happier or less stress in a situation where created just for that person.
00:34:10:24 - 00:34:36:20
Elena Ghezzo
It shouldn't be something very difficult to make or something very expensive A situation or a little present can be enough to make the woman feeling important, feeling satisfied, or feeling just like you notice her. You are noticing an effort to make everyone else happy.
00:34:36:21 - 00:34:56:24
Abigail Acton
Yeah. Make women laugh. I think that's an excellent idea. Well, listen, I want to thank you very much for sharing your time with me today. We've had some interesting discussions both about your own personal careers and about widening a scientific career out to other women as well. So if there are young women listening to this, there are some useful pointers for you here and some inspirational guests.
00:34:57:01 - 00:34:58:06
Abigail Acton
Thank you very much for your time.
00:34:58:09 - 00:34:59:13
Camilla Pierella
Thank you again.
00:34:59:13 - 00:35:00:06
Elena Ghezzo
Thank you very much.
00:35:00:06 - 00:35:01:00
Erika Hausenblas
Thanks a lot.
00:35:01:02 - 00:35:02:04
Camilla Pierella
Bye bye bye.
00:35:02:05 - 00:35:29:07
Abigail Acton
You're very welcome. Goodbye, everyone. Bye bye. If you've enjoyed this podcast and are interested in the latest scientific research coming out of the EU, have a listen to previous episodes. Follow us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and check out the podcast homepage on the CORDIS website. We've talked about living archives of viruses and innovations to forensic science in our last 31 episodes, there will be something that we keep curiosity.
00:35:29:09 - 00:35:49:20
Abigail Acton
Perhaps we're interested in seeing what other EU funded projects are doing in these areas. The CORDIS website will give you an insight into the results of projects funded by Horizon 2020 and Horizon Europe. The website has articles and interviews that explore the results of research being conducted in a very broad range of domains and subjects from sea long jellyfish to computer fishing.
00:35:50:00 - 00:36:12:20
Abigail Acton
There is something that for you, maybe you're involved in a project or would like to apply for funding. Take look at what others are doing in your domain, so come and check the research that's revealing what makes our world tick. We're always happy to hear from you. Drop us a line editorial at cordis dot Europa dot EU. Until next time.
This is an AI transcription.
00:00:10:05 - 00:00:16:00
Abigail Acton
This is CORDIScovery.
00:00:16:02 - 00:00:37:21
Abigail Acton
Hello and welcome to this episode of CORDIScovery with me, Abigail Acton. It's December and many of us are about to put our feet up and think of seasonal holidays. And since we're on the subject of celebration, let's celebrate women in science history. Our three female researchers, whose work has been supported by EU science funding, come from very different fields.
00:00:37:23 - 00:01:00:06
Abigail Acton
Here to share their work and their ideas on how to make careers and research more accessible to other women are Elena Ghezzo, a fellow of Ca’ Foscari University of Venice in the Department of Environmental Science Informatics and Statistics. Elena is particularly interested in screening fossils using spectral imaging and in the distribution and extinction patterns of large carnivores. Before the Holocene.
00:01:00:12 - 00:01:01:04
Abigail Acton
Hi, Elena.
00:01:01:09 - 00:01:02:20
Elena Ghezzo
Hi, everybody.
00:01:02:22 - 00:01:20:18
Abigail Acton
Camilla Pierella is currently an assistant professor in the Department of Informatics Bioengineering, Robotics and Systems Engineering at the University of Geneva. Her main research activities are related to neural control of movement, robotics for rehabilitation and body machine interfaces. Hello, Camilla.
00:01:20:20 - 00:01:22:12
Camilla Pierella
Hello, Abigail.
00:01:22:14 - 00:01:45:14
Abigail Acton
Erika Hausenblas is professor of applied mathematics at the University of Leoben in Austria. She studies how to cast stick systems characterized by randomness and uncertainty. Impact the modeling of a wide range of phenomena such as weather patterns, stock markets and biological systems. Welcome, Erika. Hello. Nice to meet you. And you as well. I'm going to turn to Elena first.
00:01:45:15 - 00:02:09:22
Abigail Acton
The refined project uses cutting edge software and t spectral sensors mounted on drones and satellites to identify likely fossil sites and to prevent the destruction of undiscovered fossil heritage by humans and by climate change. Elena, can you break down what I've just outlined? So new tools and methods as the refined project bringing to the table to further our discovery and protection of fossils.
00:02:09:24 - 00:02:37:21
Elena Ghezzo
So basically the idea is that because there is a lot of innovation about fossils and how to study fossils in many ways, but there is no innovation regarding how to find new forces and lands. My idea was to take a satellite images, the imagery that we can use to see land and cities and streets and everything that is exposed on the surface.
00:02:37:23 - 00:03:13:03
Elena Ghezzo
The idea was to apply the same methodology to find the actual fossils that are exposed or the same way in this Arctic area like in Arizona or in their jade or in places that are far away. So difficult to reach, difficult to organize this expedition and to go there and collect the fossils. And once you find forces there in person, it's difficult to manage how to transport and how to move the fossils from the ground to the museum where you can study them.
00:03:13:05 - 00:03:40:23
Elena Ghezzo
So the idea was to collect the forces and the information from the ground before to go there, before to organize everything. So I use the properties, the optical properties of fossils. What does it mean? It means that I took the images. And from the images I can detect something that we call the spectral signature. So it's basically the difference between the fossil and the ground.
00:03:41:03 - 00:03:54:07
Elena Ghezzo
And in this way, we can map the surface and have an idea of what we should expect once we will reach places that are very, very far from our lab.
00:03:54:09 - 00:04:18:02
Abigail Acton
It's fascinating, isn't it? Because not only are these places inaccessible, but you're also it gives you a clear idea of whether it's worth launching an expedition to go out there in the first place. And also the topographical constraints with regards, as you say, to shipping the specimen back as well. Yeah, I know. Very, very interesting. It's one of these wonderful ideas which when you say it seems enormously logical and one wonders why it wasn't done before.
00:04:18:03 - 00:04:24:19
Abigail Acton
Have you any idea why this hasn't been done before? All these wonderful images of the Earth's surface? And yeah, why not look for fossils that way?
00:04:24:21 - 00:05:06:15
Elena Ghezzo
We didn't have the technology. So the resolution, the high resolution we needed to detect the source. Is that okay? They are big. They are ten meters long, But they are just ten meters long. It was not available before 2014. Now we have at least two satellites able to recording images that reach 50 more or less 50 centimeters in spatial resolution and the reach, of course, in the multispectral region, we reach two meters of resolution, which is great, and enable us basically to catch the forces on the ground.
00:05:06:17 - 00:05:15:06
Abigail Acton
Well, it's obviously wonderful. And how does this actually being put into effect? Have you used this now in the field.
00:05:15:08 - 00:05:47:15
Elena Ghezzo
By use it? We try to map the distribution of fossils in Arizona at the Petrified Forest, which is a national park, and that means that we cannot walk freely on the ground to detect each of the pieces that are exposed. And so we try and the potential of this method using that national monument, and we are able to detect up to 90% of the fossils exposed in the desert face where we test the method.
00:05:47:17 - 00:05:54:21
Abigail Acton
Yes, well, that's very thorough. That's an excellent result. Fantastic. That's super. Why did you get involved in this field?
00:05:54:23 - 00:06:04:11
Elena Ghezzo
So I always love to match different field of expertise. So I started as a paleontologist and I was interested on the edges.
00:06:04:15 - 00:06:05:20
Abigail Acton
What's this, Elena?
00:06:05:21 - 00:06:40:24
Elena Ghezzo
The geographic information. So everything that goes from the map to your GPS. So your phone and location with coordinates goes under the name of a gas, basically general reference and information systems. So I basically match this individual expertise I developed during my first year of my career. And so this idea just pop up in my brain and I decided to pursue it and to try and the potential of it.
00:06:41:01 - 00:06:42:00
Abigail Acton
that sounds actually brilliant.
00:06:42:03 - 00:07:18:02
Elena Ghezzo
Basically, I'm going back from satellite to Earth and then using the optical properties and these multispectral and hyperspectral method to detect fossils that we already have in museums, to detect day preservation to monitor it, day preservation to be able to recognize materials that have been added to the fossils. And we know nothing about those. So probably the possibly the heritage can be double checking.
00:07:18:04 - 00:07:18:19
Abigail Acton
I see.
00:07:18:21 - 00:07:56:16
Elena Ghezzo
The way we restore and we maintain the collection today is very, very different from a few decades ago. So it's important to keep trace of it. And for example, for to recognize fake fossils that are quite important because if you have a fake fossil is a fake species and make misunderstanding and errors in the description of evolution. So it's very, very important to be sure that the fossil you are dealing with is original and was collected properly.
00:07:56:22 - 00:07:57:21
Abigail Acton
And is authentic.
00:07:57:24 - 00:07:59:06
Elena Ghezzo
Yeah, absolutely.
00:07:59:12 - 00:08:19:14
Abigail Acton
Well, thank you very much, Elena. That's fascinating work. Thanks for explaining that. And we're going to hear more from you a little bit later when we have our general discussion. But I'm going to turn to Camilla now. Camilla, the Rima project created a novel approach to the neuro motor rehabilitation of patients with multiple sclerosis. Ms.. Involving body machine interfaces known as bogies.
00:08:19:16 - 00:08:22:24
Abigail Acton
What are the current go to therapies for patients with? Ms. Please.
00:08:22:24 - 00:08:59:03
Camilla Pierella
Camilla So currently one innovative approach for rehabilitation in multiple sclerosis can be apart from the classical. Physical therapy can be like using robots, like, you know, exoskeletons for upper limb or for lower limb to help regain some mobility for walking or for doing any kind of daily activities. What it's novel of this approach was that instead of using bulky robots and very expensive technologies, we wanted to use very low cost sensors that you can put on the body parts that you want to rehabilitate.
00:08:59:07 - 00:09:36:13
Camilla Pierella
In my case, I was focusing on the upper limb and you can do like some exercises without the burden of having a robot or having extra weight on your arms. And you can also record not only movement but also like muscle activation and things like these. So you can have like a very deep information on the mobility of these people and how they changed through the disease because unfortunately, multiple sclerosis is a daily changing disease, unfortunately.
00:09:36:18 - 00:09:57:22
Abigail Acton
Right. I understand from what you've told me before about this project, is that you are able also to to measure the impact of training, physiotherapy, training and so on. You mentioned something about the identification and characterize of biomarkers of motor impairment at different levels of the nervous system. So what exactly were you talking about when you were thinking about that?
00:09:57:24 - 00:10:01:01
Abigail Acton
What do you mean by the biomarkers and the characterization?
00:10:01:04 - 00:10:35:23
Camilla Pierella
Yeah, with biomarkers, I mean some specific features that you can extract from different signals that you can record from the body and with different level. I mean that I can go from the central nervous system. Indeed, we were doing MRI, which is magnetic resonance imaging, and with that we could acquire and measure the structural and functional changes that can occur in the brain before and after the rehabilitation training.
00:10:36:00 - 00:11:03:03
Camilla Pierella
And so like from the brain scan, we could assess the changes in their more than in their structural, in their functional link that you connect between different brain regions. And then we like move more in the periphery. So like we measure like some changes that you're going to have in the spinal cord because we were doing MRI scan also in the cervical region of the spine and then measuring also the key demanded.
00:11:03:06 - 00:11:46:03
Camilla Pierella
So we would assess changes then hopefully improvement in the movement, for example, of the arm and what we wanted to investigate more. And it was also the proprioception either not exceptionally this sense that we have of our body in space. Now, without looking my hand, I can immediately tell you where my hand is. And so what we found, like our preliminary results were very encouraging and we found that with the motor training you have motor improvement, but you also have improvement in progress actions because we were running test to assess these problems at big scale seen in people with multiple sclerosis.
00:11:46:05 - 00:11:52:24
Abigail Acton
Okay. And this is all down to this, this new way of using the bombs that are helping people to rehabilitate.
00:11:52:24 - 00:12:23:09
Camilla Pierella
Exactly. Exactly. Because they're training with the Bomi at the beginning. It's not very intuitive because we are, let's say, transforming in a not usual way. The improvement of your body in the control of a cursor on the screen that allow you to play video games. Okay, We are not doing a transformation, let's say 1 to 1, but we give the subject some freedom that push him to explore various movement.
00:12:23:09 - 00:12:37:22
Camilla Pierella
And by this combination of movements that actually make the people more conscious about these motor abilities and about actually the positioning of his body in space. So that's why I'm saying we are not only training moderate, but also through perception.
00:12:38:02 - 00:12:55:03
Abigail Acton
Excellent. You must be really, really thrilled with your results because the project is really showing positive results, isn't it? Yes. Excellent. That's fantastic. Are you noticing that other rehabilitation centers, other people who are specialized in rehabilitation, are interested in these exercises and this training that you have developed?
00:12:55:05 - 00:13:18:07
Camilla Pierella
Yes. Yes. This study started in the in general in the hospital. It's currently ongoing because we managed to find some extra findings after the end of the military so that the project is still ongoing. And I mean, we we see that. I mean, it's potential and it's a longer success, hopefully.
00:13:18:09 - 00:13:42:19
Abigail Acton
Yeah. Excellent. That's really good. Thank you very much. That's very, very interesting. Thank you. I'm going to turn to Erika now. Erika Chemotaxis is the orientated movement of cells in response to a chemical gradient. Now, the stop that project was curious to see what happens when this is perturbed by a random external factor termed stochastic noise. Now, doing so means modelers can characterize dynamic behavior more accurately.
00:13:42:19 - 00:14:26:08
Abigail Acton
So for the non mathematicians listening in and I count myself as one of those. Can you explain what stochastic partial differential equations are, please? Erica
00:14:26:10 - 00:15:04:08
Erika Hausenblas
Okay. Usually you you want to describe the nature like fluid or biochemical systems and these things. So you describe by kind of equations, normally partial differential equation or differential equation where you bring into relationship the state of the system and the short time the derivative up to the time that means a short time changing of the system, how it’s changed in a short time. These are you called differential equations. And what I'm looking for is if you put then some randomness into this system, what is changing? Can you describe or pop that up some certain phenomena which does not exist? And this deterministic chaos is a difference. And if yes, that's fine. And secondly, how to model these kind of stochastic system numerically, usually you do not have really analytic tools to model them or say something.
00:15:04:14 - 00:15:30:22
Erika Hausenblas
So you need you need a numerical modeling to see what is happening to the system, in which direction it moves, and to see what's happening.
00:15:30:24 - 00:15:31:02
Abigail Acton
Sure. Okay. Can you that’s that’s fine. That’s excellent. Could you give us an example of of a particular system that that lends itself to this type of of modeling and examination?
00:15:31:04 - 00:16:06:07
Erika Hausenblas
Okay. A typical example of climate toxins is slime mold. This is a really nice example. So a slime mold, if there is not sufficiently much food there, it produces a chemical substance that attracts the other cells or the other slime Mold says. So the slime mold are crack gates and form a kind of of the peak. In this way, if there is some wind, it often takes a top off the peak and they come to another place where it could be a nicer environment and they find some food again.
00:16:06:09 - 00:16:24:22
Abigail Acton
So what we have is a group of cells that when they have insufficient food, will go higher and higher group together and call more cells together and they'll go higher and higher so that the top can get blown away to somewhere that might actually provide more food. I mean, that in itself is a small miracle. I don't know about you guys, but I think that in itself is a small miracle.
00:16:24:24 - 00:16:32:05
Abigail Acton
So that that's an example of chemotaxis, as you said. So, Erika, what you are interested in, I think, is the inherent randomness of that.
00:16:32:07 - 00:16:56:11
Erika Hausenblas
Yes, this comes if usually if you dare, by four mobile biological systems, the mathematical equation, it’s it’s based on the Santa limit law and you kick out in the taking the limit of all cells which go going to infinity that odds the randomness or all these fluctuation which normally happen.
00:16:56:13 - 00:17:24:07
Erika Hausenblas
So usually one has a deterministic equation. That means if you know the starting point, you know that and point, that's it. But this kind of determinism in in nature or in life all the time, something is happening. You have foreseen or even the molecules they are or the slime says do not go really the same way. How it's described mathematically.
00:17:24:08 - 00:17:51:22
Erika Hausenblas
So I put back into the system the randomness. And the interesting point is you have new phenomena, new things are happening. And yeah, that's that's a quite interesting issue.
00:17:51:24 - 00:17:52:05
Abigail Acton
Yes, absolutely. And also it makes it much more realistic because, I mean, life is full of of a degree of random things. I was going to say random course, but I know chaos actually has a specific meaning in this area, so I’ll stick with the word random, has a whole load of random factors that do kick in.
00:17:52:11 - 00:18:19:17
Abigail Acton
Yeah. Okay. That's great. Erika, what got you involved in this field of mathematics? Because after all, it's very biological. Your application is is to other other areas like like biology, for example. But also, I would imagine, climate and weather patterns and all sorts of things. So what got you involved in this area?
00:18:19:19 - 00:18:50:23
Abigail Acton
Okay, I’m mathematician, but I like application of math in biology or chemistry and and also of physics. And in this way, first I have the feeling my research is useful, so I'm not really in tower in according to our thinking about my own things. And the next is often you have really interesting systems, but the people in biology and so they often try to model it or write down the equation, but they do not really reflect about it. And often they do not have really in a rigorous proof.
00:18:51:00 - 00:18:55:18
Abigail Acton
Okay, so you feel that from a mathematical perspective you can provide that rigor?
00:18:55:21 - 00:19:20:23
Erika Hausenblas
Yes. Yes, I can really investigate then maybe design or I'll think of algos and how you can really model it numerically such that what you get after the on the computer and what you see that this is really the equation or model's equation and how quick is it convergent and these things. So yes.
00:19:21:00 - 00:19:41:14
Abigail Acton
Yeah. So basically your your equations in your modeling are actually reflecting more what you see as a result of the phenomenon itself. That's excellent. Thank you very much. Well, as I mentioned, very, very different domains, but one thing you all have in common and me as well, is that we're all women. And so I want to talk now in a slightly different vein from our normal CORDIScovery podcast.
00:19:41:14 - 00:20:04:11
Abigail Acton
So I want to bring you together to talk a little bit about how we can make the the career of a scientific research more accessible to women in general. So I'm going to ask you a question and then I'd like to call on you one by one to answer. And I think that one of the things that perhaps would be really interesting to know would be if you could talk to your 18 year old self, what advice would you give her?
00:20:04:13 - 00:20:12:17
Abigail Acton
And Elena, I'm going to come to you first for an answer. What would you say to yourself at 18, knowing what you know now?
00:20:12:19 - 00:20:44:22
Elena Ghezzo
I have a lot to say to her. But the priority I think it's to search for a good mentor or someone who can really understand your perspective and your wishes and someone who has experience in the field how you want to approach in a in a way that can suggest to you the good way, the good match for you to to deal with, to persuade and to reach your goals.
00:20:44:22 - 00:20:45:18
Elena Ghezzo
Basically.
00:20:45:20 - 00:20:56:18
Abigail Acton
That's a very nice idea. Our mentor, I think, is very important, my other guests, Camilla. Erika, do you did you have any good mentors at the beginning of your scientific career? Anybody that you could talk to and trust? Camilla
00:20:56:20 - 00:21:37:18
Camilla Pierella
Yes, I feel very lucky because in every step of my career, I was receiving, like good suggestions from from my mentor and independently, like from the sex. I had made mostly male mentors, and now I have a female mentor. But they all gave me very, very pretty shoes, suggestions and indication. And one thing that they found like very, very helpful was that they always gave me freedom and always made me do my choice.
00:21:37:20 - 00:21:45:03
Abigail Acton
They didn't try and constrain you. Yeah, yeah. No, no, no. And in fact, Camilla, what would you say to yourself at 18?
00:21:45:05 - 00:22:14:22
Camilla Pierella
That is difficult question but the very first thing that it's coming to my mind is that I would tell her to be less shy and like more brave in making decisions that bring you on the other side of the of the globe. But despite of that, I also tell her that the good job that you did it.
00:22:14:22 - 00:22:19:11
Abigail Acton
So yeah, that's good. Erika, what would you say to your 18 year old self?
00:22:19:13 - 00:22:56:14
Erika Hausenblas
Okay, I say there is no free lunch. That means you have yen. You have to work for it and to get it and you have to. You should not hope that anybody picks you up and so on. So for example, I myself, I really my first project I is after my idea year old it and I submitted it because I was not really successful as an application so I just took it in my hands and wrote abroad, worked and got a scholarship. That was my is the beginning.
00:22:56:16 - 00:23:12:11
Abigail Acton
There you go. So not being put off by initial, initial, perhaps blockage, but keeping pushing, pushing, pushing, And my next question to you, three of you again, one by one is, as a woman working in science, what would be the one thing that you would change to make the profession more accessible to other women?
00:23:12:11 - 00:23:17:06
Abigail Acton
So, Elena, I'm going to start again with you. What would be the one thing that would make it more accessible for other women, do you think?
00:23:17:09 - 00:23:55:08
Elena Ghezzo
Let's say that I am on the side of men so pushing to be a good father or a good husband is the best way to introduce or to make women free to feel themselves in science. So one of the things I always put a on the table is it should be mandatory for fathers to have paternal leave after the baby is born because a father is has important to has a mother right after the baby is born.
00:23:55:08 - 00:24:24:03
Elena Ghezzo
So why to make a difference? Of course, we have different rules inside the house. We provide milk they cannot but nowaday. They also can buy milk, basically. And and do everything they can to match to have a good match with the baby, which is very important. Also, when the child grow up, basically to have a good example in the house.
00:24:24:05 - 00:24:33:10
Abigail Acton
Yeah, absolutely. That's what men can do to help to to ensure that women can lead fulfilling careers and what about mutual support that other women can give each other?
00:24:33:10 - 00:25:02:07
Elena Ghezzo
So when I for example, when I came back from the U.S., I found a very welcome environment with the other women, my colleagues doing the same experience. I was doing the same problem, the same issues related to a lot of change of move in and from one country to another, from one university to the other. So that was very, very important.
00:25:02:08 - 00:25:28:17
Elena Ghezzo
And the second thing is very important to make women feeling safe in the field of science and supported by the environment itself is to not looking at your colleagues are like competitors, but look at the other women. So as a supporter, because we have exactly the same problems.
00:25:28:19 - 00:25:39:23
Abigail Acton
Camilla I know that you've also been to the U.S., haven't you? What was the difference? Did you notice any difference in culture between the pursuit of a scientific career, either side of the Atlantic? How did that go going up?
00:25:40:01 - 00:26:04:11
Camilla Pierella
Like Elena said before, I had the same experience of her when when I came back from the US to Europe, I got like a lot of support from my colleagues. And imagine that in my lab, the one where I'm now and the one where it was in Switzerland, there were like many women like me, so I cannot see anything like bad.
00:26:04:11 - 00:26:18:19
Camilla Pierella
They always found support from other women and I really believe, like Elena said before, that these are like the most important thing to see in your colleague. Like a friend, not in any.
00:26:18:21 - 00:26:30:04
Abigail Acton
Yeah. Or a competitor. No, indeed. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And Erika, what did you find with regards to cultural attitudes regarding women in mathematics? Are you seeing anything?
00:26:30:06 - 00:26:47:16
Erika Hausenblas
First, I have the impression that really in math, there are less women than in biology. And these things. Secondly, if I come to it and it concerns the modern one woman, then Austria or Germany or even UK, they are less woman.
00:26:47:17 - 00:27:12:16
Erika Hausenblas
And I once even was in UK. It didn't go on like a conference. They were two woman out of 40. And I see those are where I'm teaching. I have a course for example in mechanical engineers they are 35 and one woman. And I would say, for example, when I got my professorship, most say they didn't, many of them did not really congratulated.
00:27:12:16 - 00:27:37:01
Abigail Acton
The first reaction was, what are you doing the for children? It will be complicated. It it and so on. And then I stopped turning it or saying, I'm. I got a professorship just because I. Yeah, it's, it's and maybe also some think if I gotten divorced and were applying for an position I just know nobody told about it.
00:27:37:01 - 00:27:44:15
Erika Hausenblas
I'm a single mother because I was sure I will not get any position in this kind of right Austria or something.
00:27:44:17 - 00:27:58:13
Abigail Acton
Whereas a divorced father might not have to keep quiet about that. Very interesting. Thank you, Erika, rather. That's very interesting indeed. And congratulations on your professorship. We all of us congratulate you sincerely. That's a huge thing.
00:27:58:15 - 00:28:16:00
Abigail Acton
Okay, wonderful. And I'd just like to ask you a final question here. It's a classic one, I'm afraid, almost clichéd. I'd like to just think a little bit about work life balance commitments, because it's it's obviously something that is a challenge for for all of us. So how could that be helped, do you think? Erika, will turn to you first?
00:28:16:02 - 00:28:23:09
Abigail Acton
What could be done to make the life of a female scientific researcher easier with regards to work life commitments, balancing those?
00:28:23:14 - 00:28:44:19
Erika Hausenblas
Yeah, I think first for children like kindergarten and these things that this is easier. And I do not know if many things were for my colleagues, but I guess it's the whole society too, where you have to fight against it. It’s not only the university
00:28:44:21 - 00:28:46:00
Abigail Acton
fight against what? Erika
00:28:46:04 - 00:29:20:08
Erika Hausenblas
I think it's a lot of small things. For example, I wanted to put in the tax money for my babysitter and which is possibly for babysitters necessary. And the tax office, it kicked out this of my tax declaration since it's not necessary, I could have taken another less demanding job up, for example, to give my daughter in the school, which you would be more comfortable of this my mother and the organization I had to fight each year.
00:29:20:13 - 00:29:22:17
Erika Hausenblas
It's they are small things mostly.
00:29:22:23 - 00:29:33:16
Abigail Acton
Yeah. No, it's not that small. And it also gets tiring every time to have to keep doing it. Indeed, yeah. Elena, what would you think about work life balance? How could that be improved?
00:29:33:16 - 00:30:04:00
Elena Ghezzo
If I can say it's a mess, Yeah. So to improve the work life balance is to give more flexibility to women to manage the private life. So, for example, I'm very productive at home and it doesn't mean I'm working less. I'm actually working more efficiently. And because I'm trying to do something at home to like a washing machine, go, let's the washing machine goes.
00:30:04:02 - 00:30:44:08
Elena Ghezzo
It's only 5 minutes. It's like a coffee break and Italian coffee bake break, let's say. And so it's it's very it's, it's increase the effectiveness of my work and my daily work. I mean also of course, improve the services available for women to manage children's like the daycare and everything. So for example in Italy, daycare is open until 4 p.m. That doesn't make sense because nobody finish work at 4 p.m. and we need we have to work until 6 p.m. at least.
00:30:44:10 - 00:31:08:13
Elena Ghezzo
And if you don't have a babysitter or a grandma or a grandfather picking up the baby, you have to live, work earlier than your colleagues that are usually male. And that means they can go ahead and work for additional 2 hours per day at the end of the month is a huge difference. And this is just an example.
00:31:08:13 - 00:31:30:21
Elena Ghezzo
And of course, you have to have support in your house with your husband to be organized. Yeah, but it's not always the case. And there is no balance between the effort you put together in the family. And it's a mother. It's it's a fact. We can now say, okay, we can divide. It is 50%. Since that was the case.
00:31:30:23 - 00:31:34:06
Abigail Acton
Community have any observations of with regards to work life balance?
00:31:34:12 - 00:31:56:16
Camilla Pierella
Well, I think that that is one key word that Erika and I already said, which is support that unfortunately, sometimes you receive support from like your partner, if you have one. If you have one. I mean, I don't have children right now, so I cannot you know, and I understand. I mean, I can try to understand my take.
00:31:56:16 - 00:32:30:13
Camilla Pierella
I am not living the same problem as in America, but I'm sure that having a good support from your partner might definitely help and from the institution. Of course, I think that Colby taught us that much. Working can be an option and should be an option because if you want to work from home, you and you I mean, you don't have a job that it requires you to like to do operations in your workplace, then you should be allowed to stay home.
00:32:30:15 - 00:32:42:20
Camilla Pierella
So that in that way you can improve the work life balance and not be, you know, 80% of your time at work and 20 at home.
00:32:42:22 - 00:32:59:21
Abigail Acton
Excellent points all of you are making. Thank you very much. So to wind up, does anybody have one piece of advice that they think that they would give to family members, perhaps partners at this time when Christmas often puts an awful lot of pressure on women? Yes. Elena? Yeah, I.
00:32:59:21 - 00:33:28:23
Elena Ghezzo
Have a an idea, actually, because we talk a lot about how to work together with our partner and the important to make women feel less stressed and make them laugh. And I always see how high and women kind of increase the serenity, the happiness in the house and then your house when they laugh a lot. And I love that feeling.
00:33:28:23 - 00:34:10:23
Elena Ghezzo
So I want to put down a challenge for all the men listening because it's close to Christmas time and we are all busy running from one place to another. It might be a funny, let's say, funny to create a situation when women your women, I mean your partner, your mom, your friend, your sister, or just a stranger you see every day going to work or places just to put down ideas to make that person happier or less stress in a situation where created just for that person.
00:34:10:24 - 00:34:36:20
Elena Ghezzo
It shouldn't be something very difficult to make or something very expensive A situation or a little present can be enough to make the woman feeling important, feeling satisfied, or feeling just like you notice her. You are noticing an effort to make everyone else happy.
00:34:36:21 - 00:34:56:24
Abigail Acton
Yeah. Make women laugh. I think that's an excellent idea. Well, listen, I want to thank you very much for sharing your time with me today. We've had some interesting discussions both about your own personal careers and about widening a scientific career out to other women as well. So if there are young women listening to this, there are some useful pointers for you here and some inspirational guests.
00:34:57:01 - 00:34:58:06
Abigail Acton
Thank you very much for your time.
00:34:58:09 - 00:34:59:13
Camilla Pierella
Thank you again.
00:34:59:13 - 00:35:00:06
Elena Ghezzo
Thank you very much.
00:35:00:06 - 00:35:01:00
Erika Hausenblas
Thanks a lot.
00:35:01:02 - 00:35:02:04
Camilla Pierella
Bye bye bye.
00:35:02:05 - 00:35:29:07
Abigail Acton
You're very welcome. Goodbye, everyone. Bye bye. If you've enjoyed this podcast and are interested in the latest scientific research coming out of the EU, have a listen to previous episodes. Follow us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and check out the podcast homepage on the CORDIS website. We've talked about living archives of viruses and innovations to forensic science in our last 31 episodes, there will be something that we keep curiosity.
00:35:29:09 - 00:35:49:20
Abigail Acton
Perhaps we're interested in seeing what other EU funded projects are doing in these areas. The CORDIS website will give you an insight into the results of projects funded by Horizon 2020 and Horizon Europe. The website has articles and interviews that explore the results of research being conducted in a very broad range of domains and subjects from sea long jellyfish to computer fishing.
00:35:50:00 - 00:36:12:20
Abigail Acton
There is something that for you, maybe you're involved in a project or would like to apply for funding. Take look at what others are doing in your domain, so come and check the research that's revealing what makes our world tick. We're always happy to hear from you. Drop us a line editorial at cordis dot Europa dot EU. Until next time.
Nel 2021, le donne scienziato e ingegnere nell’UE erano 6,9 milioni, con un aumento di 369 800 unità rispetto al 2020. Questo rappresenta il 41 % dell’occupazione totale nel settore scientifico e dell’ingegneria. Si tratta di un miglioramento, ma possiamo fare di più per incoraggiare le giovani donne a intraprendere la carriera di ricercatrici o, addirittura, a cambiare carriera per quelle che già lavorano in altri settori? Che cosa hanno in comune un matematico, un paleontologo e un ricercatore che sta valutando la riabilitazione dei pazienti affetti da sclerosi multipla? Tutte e tre sono donne che si sono ritagliate una carriera di successo come ricercatrici scientifiche. In una variazione del nostro formato abituale, questo episodio di CORDIScovery invita tre ricercatrici provenienti da settori tra loro del tutto estranei a parlare del loro lavoro, a discutere le proprie esperienze e a offrire spunti su ciò che le ha aiutate e ostacolate nello sviluppo delle loro carriere. Elena Ghezzo è borsista della Università Ca' Foscari di Venezia, presso il Dipartimento di Scienze Ambientali, Informatica e Statistica. È particolarmente interessata allo screening dei fossili mediante immagini spettrali e ai modelli di distribuzione ed estinzione dei grandi carnivori prima dell’Olocene, che ha esplorato attraverso il progetto REFIND. Camilla Pierella è attualmente professoressa assistente presso il Dipartimento di Informatica, Bioingegneria, Robotica e Ingegneria dei Sistemi della Università di Genova, e coordinatrice del progetto REMAp. Le sue principali attività di ricerca riguardano il controllo neurale del movimento, i robot per la riabilitazione e le interfacce corpo-macchina. Erika Hausenblas è professoressa di matematica applicata presso l’Università di Leoben, in Austria, e coordinatrice del progetto STOPATT. Studia il modo in cui i sistemi stocastici, caratterizzati da casualità e incertezza, influiscono sulla modellazione di un’ampia gamma di fenomeni, come i modelli meteorologici, i mercati azionari e i sistemi biologici.
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Parole chiave
CORDIScovery, CORDIS, REFIND, REMAp, STOPATT, donne, carriere, matematica, sclerosi multipla, robotica, fossili, imaging spettrale, riabilitazione, sistemi stocastici