4. AI - More than ChatGPT
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CORDIScovery Vodcast- Episode #4 - More than ChatGPT – the transformative power of AI from culture to manufacturing
This is an AI transcription.
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:56:04
Anthony Lockett
Hello and welcome to this special episode of the CORDIScovery Podcast. We're diving into one of the most transformative forces shaping the world today. Artificial intelligence and machine learning. From health to the environment, mobility, industry, culture, and beyond. AI is changing how we live and work. I'm joined by representatives of four projects that have received funding from the EU Horizon Europe program, and these projects show the potential of AI and machine learning to drive innovation and competitiveness, while ensuring that they develop in a trustworthy, ethical and human centered way.
00:00:56:06 - 00:01:21:09
Anthony Lockett
So, I have with me Thomas Gutt, who is director of funding projects and coordination at Infineon Technologies in Munich. Thomas is the coordinator of the Aims 5.0 project. Welcome, Thomas.
Thomas Gutt
Yeah, it's a pleasure to be here.
Anthony Lockett
And I have on my left George Nikolakopoulos representing the Persephone project.
00:01:21:11 - 00:01:41:22
Anthony Lockett
George is a professor in robotics and artificial intelligence at the Lulea University of Technology in Sweden. And he's had some collaborations with NASA, I believe in the past as well.
George Nikolakopoulos
Correct. Thank you for the invitation. Nice meeting you.
Anthony Lockett
Very good to have you with us, George. We also have Sophia Alexandersson with us at the table.
00:01:41:24 - 00:02:14:10
Anthony Lockett
Sophia is representing the Muse-IT project. She's chief executive and artistic director of SahreMusic and Performing Arts, the Swedish knowledge Center for Artistic Development and Inclusion. Welcome, Sophia.
Sophia Alexandersson
Thanks for having me.
Anthony Lockett
And finally, we have Alessandro Kartsiaklis. Originally from Italy, then moved to Greece. And these days, based in Denmark. He is currently the CEO of Navy Blind.
00:02:14:12 - 00:02:32:05
Anthony Lockett
After a career beginning in the organization as an intern. So, it's been a really impressive ascension through the ranks. And we're very happy to have you with us here, Alessandro.
Alessandro Kartsiaklis
And it's great to be here. Thanks for having us.
Anthony Lockett
So, Thomas, if I if I could start with you.
00:02:32:07 - 00:03:02:03
Anthony Lockett
Your project uses artificial intelligence to improve the sustainability of European industry. At least that's the objective, I believe. Can you explain how you're doing that?
Thomas Gutt
Yeah. The sustainability is an important topic, but AI and manufacturing is the other very big topic. We are using AI in our daily communication now when we use ChatGPT but using it in industry seems to be much more difficult.
00:03:02:03 - 00:03:27:19
Thomas Gutt
But there is a huge potential to use that. Yeah. That's why we are doing this with a broader consortium. We have 53 partners from nine industrial domains that what we want to do, we are not just focusing on one domain. We think we can learn from each other. And by this, incorporating more than one domain.
00:03:27:21 - 00:04:01:08
Anthony Lockett
Yeah. Could you give us an example? I mean, in what kind of practical ways could your project potentially improve ecofriendly manufacturing?
Thomas Gutt
Learning is a very good example. That means, we are examining all the data with AI, learning much more about our products. And with that, creating higher yields. And if we have higher yields, that means with the same input energy, we can produce more chips than before.
00:04:01:11 - 00:04:27:02
Thomas Gutt
And hence, the energy per chip that was used is reduced. That's one of the ways to sustainability. Another way is, for instance, driving out unwanted materials like PFAs. These are different ways to sustainability.
Anthony Lockett
Okay. And I think you're developing through the project some very practical tools that companies can use, guidelines, checklists, and that kind of thing.
00:04:27:02 - 00:05:00:16
Anthony Lockett
If they're interested in applying AI in the manufacturing processes. Can you tell us a bit more about that?
Thomas Gutt
Yeah, we have a let's say two groups of work packages. One is where all the use cases are that will be our results. But there is as well input technologies. For instance, the AI gym, as we call it, that is the collection of different AI tools that will be compared and allowing the partners to compare the two tools and learn from each other.
00:05:00:18 - 00:05:22:08
Thomas Gutt
I think that's something which makes us special. And we are putting a lot of focus on this, so that one can learn from the other.
Anthony Lockett
Okay. And when you say an AI gym is the idea that you go from kind of one exercise, one to flex different AI muscles.
Thomas Gutt
Yeah. Like this. Yeah.
00:05:22:10 - 00:05:43:10
Thomas Gutt
Improving our work by gym, like one machine where you improve your muscles. But you see as well the enable machine and see if it's maybe more effective. Or it can be more useful for what you are doing. And that's like you're together in this room and learn from each other.
Anthony Lockett
Okay. Thanks for that.
00:05:43:12 - 00:06:09:07
Anthony Lockett
Let me turn to you next, George. As I said, you're representing the Persephone project here. We're actually recording this podcast that the research and innovation days, we have an exhibition space where all of you actually are presenting your projects. But definitely one of the big attractions downstairs is your robotic dog. So perhaps you could tell us a little bit about that and how it's part of your project to develop solutions to explore and extract deep mineral deposits?
00:06:09:07 - 00:06:28:01
George Nikolakopoulos
Yes, exactly. And I think the robot dog is a very nice example of a project that generates autonomy, for example, for inspecting deep and abandoned mines. And what we have in the exhibition is live proof that the exact technology that has been operating in mine is here. People can see it.
00:06:28:01 - 00:06:53:12
George Nikolakopoulos
That's it. Interact with a fully autonomous device. So, the project is focusing on how to inspect these deep and abandoned mines and search for minerals in order to then process all the data. And all this could be used as a tool to take decisions, or if the abandoned mines will be reopened, how safe are operations, what minerals exist and what actions will be taken?
00:06:53:13 - 00:07:18:07
Anthony Lockett
Right. And can you just explain briefly why is it important to go deeper to extract minerals?
George Nikolakopoulos
Very correct. Because, specifically in abandoned mines and, the access of humans is completely forbidden. It's absolutely no place to go there. You cannot even enter one or two meters. And the reason is simple. These mines have been open and closed for 100 years, 60 years.
00:07:18:07 - 00:07:40:22
George Nikolakopoulos
So, they are not producing minerals anymore. So, it's completely forbidden for humans to enter. So, the only tool that you have is these robots to go inside, inspect the environment, that takes some sampling, and drilling. We do that also the Persephone project. Same situation with the deep mines that we're talking about with deposits more than one kilometer deep in there.
00:07:41:03 - 00:08:00:20
George Nikolakopoulos
So, it's very difficult conditions, very warm. And the only solution, again, is to send robots, autonomous robots. There are no humans in the loop; there are no remote pilots. In order to inspect the situation, track the ore and take decisions. How mine planning, how mine developments should take place.
00:08:00:23 - 00:08:30:06
Anthony Lockett
Right. So, it's to do with human safety. It's to do with accessing areas you wouldn't be able to access.
George Nikolakopoulos
Number one, human safety. A second also that we collect billions of data that only, so as you mentioned AI, only AI tools can process this information in a multi-dimensional approach. So we combine samples, spectral cameras, and then we take decisions about how the ore is laying down in the mine.
00:08:30:06 - 00:08:49:02
George Nikolakopoulos
That's the second reason.
Anthony Lockett
Okay. There's a lot of talk about digital twins. I believe your project also has that kind of dimension. Can you say a bit about that?
George Nikolakopoulos
Yes. So, on autonomous systems, the fundamental operation is localization. To answer "where am I” for a robot, every robot knows his position.
00:08:49:04 - 00:09:11:00
George Nikolakopoulos
So, we use, advanced sensor leaders to track space, we do special recognition, but also we use sensors to build a map where robots or other mining machines can operate. And with these robots, we can, let's say, create digital twins, map representations or point clouds in robotics of kilometers.
00:09:11:00 - 00:09:37:17
George Nikolakopoulos
And we can combine existing maps with new maps. We can combine maps coming from different robots. It's called multi session robotic mapping. And then we can localize on these maps measurements on ore density, on ore type, and provide this information to experts to take decisions on how the mine will do.
Anthony Lockett
Okay. Thanks very much George. Come back to you in a, in a moment in the discussion.
00:09:37:17 - 00:10:00:18
Anthony Lockett
But let's, let's move on. Now I'd like to bring in Sophia who's here as I said, representing the Muse-IT project. I think the fundamental aim of this project is to improve access to cultural heritage through technology. And I know you have a special music platform that you would like to talk about, but can you just begin by giving us a kind of overall introduction to the project?
00:10:00:20 - 00:10:31:24
Sophia Alexandersson
All right. So, Muse-IT is really focusing on how we can find new ways of dealing with arts and culture and going beyond perhaps sight and hearing, using other senses like, haptics, etc. So, it's about multimodality. It's about making sure that everyone should have equal rights to not only experience, but also to explore it in the way that you actually would like to maybe have your own participation in focus.
00:10:32:01 - 00:10:55:02
Sophia Alexandersson
So, we have been working for the last three years in many different ways to explore this since everything from developing haptics. For example, let's say you have a painting on a wall. How can we explore that, not only looking at it, not only having someone describing it, but maybe having the sound, which is equal to the painting, or having a haptic sensation from it.
00:10:55:04 - 00:11:21:07
Anthony Lockett
Yeah, yeah. And have you been working with museums and cultural centers to actually introduce some of these accessible options?
Sophia Alexandersson
Yeah, we have. We have 12 partners in the project. We are spanning from companies to cultural institutions, to ourselves, which is a disability organization, I wouldn't say, but we are a knowledge center focusing on disability inclusion.
00:11:21:09 - 00:11:41:15
Sophia Alexandersson
So we have been, of course, doing lots of workshop in particular in our parts of the project, we have been meeting lots of individuals, disabled individuals and people who are working with them to really also go for this kind of really user aspect, designing, not trying to create something which is not in use or in need for anyone.
00:11:41:17 - 00:12:04:00
Sophia Alexandersson
So yes, we have been meeting a lot, so I would say cultural institutions is also a very important target group for the project.
Anthony Lockett
Okay. And are there any particular obstacles you've encountered in introducing this kind of technology into those spaces?
Sophia Alexandersson
No, I can't really say that. I think it's more about what are the barriers today.
00:12:04:02 - 00:12:28:14
Sophia Alexandersson
I think accessibility has been very much about, maybe, focusing on physical things first of all. But like Burrows university, which is a lead partner, they have been working a lot with deafblind people and really looking into technology, especially with haptics and so on, which is like ensuring also other types of ways of working and to really overcome these types of barriers.
00:12:28:14 - 00:12:56:03
Sophia Alexandersson
But what we have been trying to really go into is to not having the disability itself in focus, but rather how do we make sure that everyone can participate.
Anthony Lockett
I see, and, I promised that I would give you a chance to talk about your remote performance platform for co-creating music, which sounds really exciting. So as far as I understand, the platform ensures synchronized sounds and interaction using haptics and biodata.
00:12:56:05 - 00:13:18:03
Anthony Lockett
It allows musicians to rehearse, perform, express feelings, and experiment together as if they were together physically in the same space. You know, where did the idea come from?
Sophia Alexandersson
It's actually an idea we've been working quite a lot with for many years at ShareMusic. So actually, when we got the invitation to this consortium, we said we would love to work and develop this further because we do think it fits into this call.
00:13:18:05 - 00:13:38:21
Sophia Alexandersson
So, I think it was really kind of an emergency situation coming up during the pandemic. We all had to stay at home, especially for musicians. You know, it did become a really hard thing. How do you play together? Because I mean, obviously Zoom and everything, you know, you had to sing Happy Birthday to each other, you know, and it just sounded horrible because you are not in sync.
00:13:38:21 - 00:14:01:20
Anthony Lockett
Yeah. The latency.
Sophia Alexandersson
So, but for a lot of disabled people, the situation we had during the pandemics is like their daily life. They have limited possibilities to maybe take part in work life to study lots of things. Not for all of them, but for some people, these distances are there. So, for us, this situation has been something we have been kind of looking into in general.
00:14:01:24 - 00:14:32:01
Sophia Alexandersson
How can we have equal access for people to participate, even have it as their own work? So, the idea really came out and then, we also had a chance to being introduced to JackTrip, which is technology which has been developed by Stanford, which is about working with low latency. So, what we had done during the project is really that we have also added new technology developing both JackTrip peripheral but also other technologies.
00:14:32:01 - 00:14:52:07
Sophia Alexandersson
So, we are coming to the next phase because what is missing when you are online. It's the emotions. How do you share the emotions? We are in the same room here right now. We can feel each other. You know, our bodies are picking up things, but what happens when we go online is really hard and is very important when you want to play and collaborate with people.
00:14:52:09 - 00:15:15:09
Sophia Alexandersson
So we have been looking into ways of how you can share that, you know, online. So what we are sharing downstairs here now is that people can actually try two things. One is we are using face recognition. Then we ask people to smile into the camera and then on the screen you can see projected your emotions.
00:15:15:15 - 00:15:36:09
Anthony Lockett
I see. And if there are any musicians out there who are listening to us or watching this podcast, is this technology freely available? Can people access the platform?
Sophia Alexandersson
Not the platform itself. It's still a proof of concept right now. So we need to take it to the next level so it can, you know, buffer technology needs to be more advanced.
00:15:36:09 - 00:16:03:23
Sophia Alexandersson
And then in the end, of course, it's going to be what you think a service which can be available through licensing. That's the plan at least. But I mean JackTrip in itself is available and some other technologies are also available.
Anthony Lockett
Okay. Thanks very much, Sophia. And now I'd like to turn to Alessandro, who's with us from NaviBlind, which is a project that's developed a GPS navigator that enables blind and visually impaired people to walk independently to a destination.
00:16:04:00 - 00:16:36:13
Anthony Lockett
And I believe you actually have something you can show us to explain, exactly how the.
Alessandro Kartsiaklis
Yes, I do. So that's the hardware that we are using. It contains a small satellite navigation unit. I won't say GPS, because GPS is the American version. We also have the European Galileo and the Russian and Chinese counterpart. So here in the cup, we have a small GNSS processing unit.
Anthony Lockett
It really is small, for those who are listening to us, who can't see, I mean, it is about 2 or 3cm by 4 or 5cm.
00:16:36:13 - 00:16:59:23
Alessandro Kartsiaklis
Maybe a bit more. But yeah, it's still very light and compact. This allows us to get some accuracy in positioning that can be up to a few centimeters. Very open spaces. But we try to provide navigation with an accuracy of at least 30 to 40cm in urban environments.
00:16:59:23 - 00:17:22:10
Alessandro Kartsiaklis
So that we can monitor step by step the route of our users and also tell them when to turn, when to stop and provide them with a quick description of the most important features.
Anthony Lockett
Right. And is this still at the prototype stage, or are you making it available?
Alessandro Kartsiaklis
No, this is actually our MVP. So we had our prototype for a couple of years.
00:17:22:11 - 00:17:45:16
Alessandro Kartsiaklis
We had around 20 users, trying it, they loved it because when we moved to the MVP, all of them, signed up. So right now, we have around 20 active users, independent.
Anthony Lockett
And are they using it every day in their lives?
Alessandro Kartsiaklis
Pretty much. Yes. Okay. Yes. It's mostly useful when they have to learn a new route
00:17:45:18 - 00:18:07:09
Alessandro Kartsiaklis
they are not familiar with. So it's also an alternative to mobility and orientation trainings, which can take even up to one and a half months. With our solution, we, of course, spend some time doing the quality assurance on the routes, but within 48 hours, the users have the route they have requested.
00:18:07:09 - 00:18:35:16
Anthony Lockett
And what kind of feedback do you get from the users? What kind of difference does it make to them on a day to day basis?
Alessandro Kartsiaklis
Well, for many of them it's life changing. So, basically the idea for this product stemmed from a personal necessity of a friend of ours, Emile, who is today also communication manager in the company. He moved from a small city outside Copenhagen to Copenhagen, a few years ago to study in his university.
00:18:35:16 - 00:18:54:21
Alessandro Kartsiaklis
So he suddenly found himself in a completely new environment. He had to learn how to go to the public transport. He had to learn how to go to university, to the local shops. So, what we set out to do with NaviBlind was to create a first network of points of interest for him.
00:18:54:23 - 00:19:19:03
Alessandro Kartsiaklis
And this was the way he started his master years with NaviBlind guiding him through the network of the city. So, yeah, for, for users, this technology can be life changing because as I mentioned, it can bring down preparation time, planning and preparation time for mobility by a big percentage.
00:19:19:05 - 00:19:52:15
Alessandro Kartsiaklis
And also enables users to actually be independent in navigation, to choose active mobility over a taxi service and explore new places. So we try to offer leisure opportunities, work opportunities, educational opportunities and socializing also for all users.
Anthony Lockett
Right. Listening to all of you, it seems to me that one of the things you have in common is that you all work with quite a lot of different partners within consortia for the projects.
00:19:52:15 - 00:20:14:00
Anthony Lockett
But also you have different stakeholders. You're working with user groups, disabled people, in the case of MuseIT and NaviBlind, etc., working with the mining industry, with the manufacturing industry, how have you found that experience during the project? You know, what obstacles have you faced? What lessons have you learned so that you could maybe share with others who are embarking on similar projects?
00:20:14:02 - 00:20:38:23
George Nikolakopoulos
I have a very nice example, for example, in robotics, when we say exploration, we mean how the robot will explore an unknown environment. But in the mining industry, when you say exploration, it means how you can find the minerals. So, it took us maybe two years to set up the vocabulary.
00:20:39:00 - 00:21:03:24
George Nikolakopoulos
And, of course, Persephone is not our first project. But when we started working in the mining industry, it was a problem that was overcome. And another thing is that the mining industry wants to see solutions, autonomy, automation also, in real life; they want to see things being demonstrated in real life conditions.
00:21:03:24 - 00:21:29:07
George Nikolakopoulos
And I think that is something that gave us a very good inspiration to develop systems that will have resiliency, will be able to operate under unknown conditions in unstructured and harsh lands. So we learned a totally different way of thinking and developing systems.
Anthony Lockett
Very interesting. Sophia, do you have a story you could share?
Sophia Alexandersson
I'm just trying to think about that.
00:21:29:07 - 00:21:47:17
Sophia Alexandersson
Well, I think in general, I think what has been really interesting during these three years has been that we all come from very different perspectives, but we have had inclusion and access as the kind of core points. For an organization like ShareMusic that has been working for such a long time, certain things are just in our backbone, really.
00:21:47:17 - 00:22:08:11
Sophia Alexandersson
You know, you don't even think about it. And then you have to rephrase it, perhaps as you say, or you have to re-describe it. And also, I think one main question is for me really also how can you embed accessibility and inclusion so it really becomes the norm. You don't really have to add it as a kind of add-on when you work with it.
00:22:08:11 - 00:22:31:11
Sophia Alexandersson
I feel that is something which is really a big takeaway. How do you do that?
Anthony Lockett
Right. Thanks very much. How about you Alessandro in your project NaviBlind?
Alessandro Kartsiaklis
We keep learning on multiple levels. So when we started, for example, one of our main concerns was the technology, how to make it compact, how to make it reliable.
00:22:31:13 - 00:22:58:17
Alessandro Kartsiaklis
Then as we move on, we see that there is also an aspect of interpretation of guidance or like the correct way to provide instructions to the users. We also, at some point, had to talk about the design and stylistic aspects, which we haven't thought so much about it. So, the choice of different colors in the cap was something that was suggested by the users themselves.
00:22:58:22 - 00:23:21:21
Alessandro Kartsiaklis
And now that we are expanding into the German market from our base in Denmark, we see that we have to do a lot of work to translate the requirements of the German audience, which may sound strange, but is quite different from the from the Danish. So, yeah.
Anthony Lockett
It's not just about language.
00:23:21:21 - 00:23:46:02
Anthony Lockett
It's about acceptance of the technology.
Alessandro Kartsiaklis
Yes, but not only that, but also lifestyle, the report with the public organizations of different kinds. So yeah, it's a very interesting and we keep learning.
Anthony Lockett
And Thomas, I mean you have a huge consortium, as you said earlier on, it must have been not always easy to get all of those partners together and agree on a common direction.
00:23:46:02 - 00:24:19:03
Thomas Gutt
I would say you need a strong steering team. And I mentioned that equilibrium is important, equilibrium between industry and academic partners. Yeah. And I think this is really a very healthy connection. Because the industry provides interesting data and get to know the future talents. And the academic partners, they can work with their students really deep into topics.
00:24:19:05 - 00:24:41:20
Thomas Gutt
It's something which is very healthy for both sides. And that's what I like. And we really focus on that. We have this in a good equilibrium. That means, the amount of partners industry is roughly the amount of partners in the academia.
Anthony Lockett
Very interesting. What I mean it sounds like there've been a lot of learnings in you know, different projects, a lot of progress made, but still some way to go for all of you.
00:24:41:20 - 00:25:01:11
Anthony Lockett
You have ambitions. You're all working in areas where things are moving very quickly. Robotics, AI, technology more generally. If you were to have your crystal ball and look ahead five years into the future, where would you ideally like to see your projects developing, perhaps Sophia, would you like to go first?
Sophia Alexandersson
All right.
00:25:01:11 - 00:25:19:09
Sophia Alexandersson
I think it’s pretty clear where we are heading towards. So for the remote performance platform, I think in five years' time, we do foresee we are ready to take it to the market somewhere to share it. Yeah.
Anthony Lockett
Well, good luck with that.
Sophia Alexandersson
Thank you.
Anthony Lockett
How about you, Thomas?
00:25:19:09 - 00:25:43:18
Thomas Gutt
Five years in the future, well, I'm really hoping that we see a much deeper integration of AI in manufacturing, because I think it's really helpful. And we all will benefit a lot of that. That’s what we’ll see in five years.
Anthony Lockett
And people will be going to work out in your AI gym.
Thomas Gutt
Yes, yes, but the people are still in the project or in the work.
00:25:43:18 - 00:26:14:14
Thomas Gutt
That's the reason why we have this 5.0. Because industry 5.0 is re-incorporating the person, the worker in the process, we are not replacing them with robots. But we make a good new co-work between the machines, robots, and the human being.
Anthony Lockett
Very important. Alessandro?
Alessandro Kartsiaklis
Yes. Well, we hope in five years we have entered the largest market, at least the European market, but also internationally.
00:26:14:16 - 00:26:36:21
Alessandro Kartsiaklis
We hope we will keep developing new sensors and new tools that we can integrate in our solution but also develop new solutions for accessibility and mobility more in general, and not only for blind and partially sighted people, but for everyone that can face mobility issues in daily life.
Anthony Lockett
So potentially a huge market for you there.
00:26:37:02 - 00:27:03:15
Alessandro Kartsiaklis
Yeah.
Anthony Lockett
And do you think you can stay here in Europe and do that.
Alessandro Kartsiaklis
We would like to, I mean, in the phases of our future development, we are incorporating as much as we can EU technologies. So even when it comes to AI, we would like to try first European models as also supporting the AI strategy from the European Union and the European Commission.
00:27:03:15 - 00:27:23:11
Alessandro Kartsiaklis
So as much as we can European models and if we cannot, of course, we prioritize safety of our users and the user experience.
Anthony Lockett
Thanks very much. And how about you?
George Nikolakopoulos
For us, we call it “zero entry mining”. It means that you create mines where there is no human in the loop, totally zero entry.
00:27:23:13 - 00:27:48:10
George Nikolakopoulos
I am afraid that this will not happen in five years, but I envision a future where there will be more autonomy on the mining machines, reduction of humans operating in risk areas, also smaller mining machines, smaller impact on the environment and totally safe and the responsible extraction of minerals.
Anthony Lockett
Okay. Well, that I'm afraid we've run out of time.
00:27:48:10 - 00:28:05:04
Anthony Lockett
We could continue, I'm sure, fascinating topics, but I'd like to thank our guests, George, Alessandro, Thomas and Sophia. Thank you very much for joining us. And thanks also to you for tuning in to this special edition of the CORDIScovery podcast. You can follow us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.
00:28:05:04 - 00:28:25:07
Anthony Lockett
And please do check out the podcast homepage on the Cordis website. Subscribe to make sure the hottest research and EU funded science isn't passing you by, and you can also find more information and project examples on the Cordis website, on the European Commission's Research and Innovation website and in our online magazine Horizon.
This is an AI transcription.
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:56:04
Anthony Lockett
Hello and welcome to this special episode of the CORDIScovery Podcast. We're diving into one of the most transformative forces shaping the world today. Artificial intelligence and machine learning. From health to the environment, mobility, industry, culture, and beyond. AI is changing how we live and work. I'm joined by representatives of four projects that have received funding from the EU Horizon Europe program, and these projects show the potential of AI and machine learning to drive innovation and competitiveness, while ensuring that they develop in a trustworthy, ethical and human centered way.
00:00:56:06 - 00:01:21:09
Anthony Lockett
So, I have with me Thomas Gutt, who is director of funding projects and coordination at Infineon Technologies in Munich. Thomas is the coordinator of the Aims 5.0 project. Welcome, Thomas.
Thomas Gutt
Yeah, it's a pleasure to be here.
Anthony Lockett
And I have on my left George Nikolakopoulos representing the Persephone project.
00:01:21:11 - 00:01:41:22
Anthony Lockett
George is a professor in robotics and artificial intelligence at the Lulea University of Technology in Sweden. And he's had some collaborations with NASA, I believe in the past as well.
George Nikolakopoulos
Correct. Thank you for the invitation. Nice meeting you.
Anthony Lockett
Very good to have you with us, George. We also have Sophia Alexandersson with us at the table.
00:01:41:24 - 00:02:14:10
Anthony Lockett
Sophia is representing the Muse-IT project. She's chief executive and artistic director of SahreMusic and Performing Arts, the Swedish knowledge Center for Artistic Development and Inclusion. Welcome, Sophia.
Sophia Alexandersson
Thanks for having me.
Anthony Lockett
And finally, we have Alessandro Kartsiaklis. Originally from Italy, then moved to Greece. And these days, based in Denmark. He is currently the CEO of Navy Blind.
00:02:14:12 - 00:02:32:05
Anthony Lockett
After a career beginning in the organization as an intern. So, it's been a really impressive ascension through the ranks. And we're very happy to have you with us here, Alessandro.
Alessandro Kartsiaklis
And it's great to be here. Thanks for having us.
Anthony Lockett
So, Thomas, if I if I could start with you.
00:02:32:07 - 00:03:02:03
Anthony Lockett
Your project uses artificial intelligence to improve the sustainability of European industry. At least that's the objective, I believe. Can you explain how you're doing that?
Thomas Gutt
Yeah. The sustainability is an important topic, but AI and manufacturing is the other very big topic. We are using AI in our daily communication now when we use ChatGPT but using it in industry seems to be much more difficult.
00:03:02:03 - 00:03:27:19
Thomas Gutt
But there is a huge potential to use that. Yeah. That's why we are doing this with a broader consortium. We have 53 partners from nine industrial domains that what we want to do, we are not just focusing on one domain. We think we can learn from each other. And by this, incorporating more than one domain.
00:03:27:21 - 00:04:01:08
Anthony Lockett
Yeah. Could you give us an example? I mean, in what kind of practical ways could your project potentially improve ecofriendly manufacturing?
Thomas Gutt
Learning is a very good example. That means, we are examining all the data with AI, learning much more about our products. And with that, creating higher yields. And if we have higher yields, that means with the same input energy, we can produce more chips than before.
00:04:01:11 - 00:04:27:02
Thomas Gutt
And hence, the energy per chip that was used is reduced. That's one of the ways to sustainability. Another way is, for instance, driving out unwanted materials like PFAs. These are different ways to sustainability.
Anthony Lockett
Okay. And I think you're developing through the project some very practical tools that companies can use, guidelines, checklists, and that kind of thing.
00:04:27:02 - 00:05:00:16
Anthony Lockett
If they're interested in applying AI in the manufacturing processes. Can you tell us a bit more about that?
Thomas Gutt
Yeah, we have a let's say two groups of work packages. One is where all the use cases are that will be our results. But there is as well input technologies. For instance, the AI gym, as we call it, that is the collection of different AI tools that will be compared and allowing the partners to compare the two tools and learn from each other.
00:05:00:18 - 00:05:22:08
Thomas Gutt
I think that's something which makes us special. And we are putting a lot of focus on this, so that one can learn from the other.
Anthony Lockett
Okay. And when you say an AI gym is the idea that you go from kind of one exercise, one to flex different AI muscles.
Thomas Gutt
Yeah. Like this. Yeah.
00:05:22:10 - 00:05:43:10
Thomas Gutt
Improving our work by gym, like one machine where you improve your muscles. But you see as well the enable machine and see if it's maybe more effective. Or it can be more useful for what you are doing. And that's like you're together in this room and learn from each other.
Anthony Lockett
Okay. Thanks for that.
00:05:43:12 - 00:06:09:07
Anthony Lockett
Let me turn to you next, George. As I said, you're representing the Persephone project here. We're actually recording this podcast that the research and innovation days, we have an exhibition space where all of you actually are presenting your projects. But definitely one of the big attractions downstairs is your robotic dog. So perhaps you could tell us a little bit about that and how it's part of your project to develop solutions to explore and extract deep mineral deposits?
00:06:09:07 - 00:06:28:01
George Nikolakopoulos
Yes, exactly. And I think the robot dog is a very nice example of a project that generates autonomy, for example, for inspecting deep and abandoned mines. And what we have in the exhibition is live proof that the exact technology that has been operating in mine is here. People can see it.
00:06:28:01 - 00:06:53:12
George Nikolakopoulos
That's it. Interact with a fully autonomous device. So, the project is focusing on how to inspect these deep and abandoned mines and search for minerals in order to then process all the data. And all this could be used as a tool to take decisions, or if the abandoned mines will be reopened, how safe are operations, what minerals exist and what actions will be taken?
00:06:53:13 - 00:07:18:07
Anthony Lockett
Right. And can you just explain briefly why is it important to go deeper to extract minerals?
George Nikolakopoulos
Very correct. Because, specifically in abandoned mines and, the access of humans is completely forbidden. It's absolutely no place to go there. You cannot even enter one or two meters. And the reason is simple. These mines have been open and closed for 100 years, 60 years.
00:07:18:07 - 00:07:40:22
George Nikolakopoulos
So, they are not producing minerals anymore. So, it's completely forbidden for humans to enter. So, the only tool that you have is these robots to go inside, inspect the environment, that takes some sampling, and drilling. We do that also the Persephone project. Same situation with the deep mines that we're talking about with deposits more than one kilometer deep in there.
00:07:41:03 - 00:08:00:20
George Nikolakopoulos
So, it's very difficult conditions, very warm. And the only solution, again, is to send robots, autonomous robots. There are no humans in the loop; there are no remote pilots. In order to inspect the situation, track the ore and take decisions. How mine planning, how mine developments should take place.
00:08:00:23 - 00:08:30:06
Anthony Lockett
Right. So, it's to do with human safety. It's to do with accessing areas you wouldn't be able to access.
George Nikolakopoulos
Number one, human safety. A second also that we collect billions of data that only, so as you mentioned AI, only AI tools can process this information in a multi-dimensional approach. So we combine samples, spectral cameras, and then we take decisions about how the ore is laying down in the mine.
00:08:30:06 - 00:08:49:02
George Nikolakopoulos
That's the second reason.
Anthony Lockett
Okay. There's a lot of talk about digital twins. I believe your project also has that kind of dimension. Can you say a bit about that?
George Nikolakopoulos
Yes. So, on autonomous systems, the fundamental operation is localization. To answer "where am I” for a robot, every robot knows his position.
00:08:49:04 - 00:09:11:00
George Nikolakopoulos
So, we use, advanced sensor leaders to track space, we do special recognition, but also we use sensors to build a map where robots or other mining machines can operate. And with these robots, we can, let's say, create digital twins, map representations or point clouds in robotics of kilometers.
00:09:11:00 - 00:09:37:17
George Nikolakopoulos
And we can combine existing maps with new maps. We can combine maps coming from different robots. It's called multi session robotic mapping. And then we can localize on these maps measurements on ore density, on ore type, and provide this information to experts to take decisions on how the mine will do.
Anthony Lockett
Okay. Thanks very much George. Come back to you in a, in a moment in the discussion.
00:09:37:17 - 00:10:00:18
Anthony Lockett
But let's, let's move on. Now I'd like to bring in Sophia who's here as I said, representing the Muse-IT project. I think the fundamental aim of this project is to improve access to cultural heritage through technology. And I know you have a special music platform that you would like to talk about, but can you just begin by giving us a kind of overall introduction to the project?
00:10:00:20 - 00:10:31:24
Sophia Alexandersson
All right. So, Muse-IT is really focusing on how we can find new ways of dealing with arts and culture and going beyond perhaps sight and hearing, using other senses like, haptics, etc. So, it's about multimodality. It's about making sure that everyone should have equal rights to not only experience, but also to explore it in the way that you actually would like to maybe have your own participation in focus.
00:10:32:01 - 00:10:55:02
Sophia Alexandersson
So, we have been working for the last three years in many different ways to explore this since everything from developing haptics. For example, let's say you have a painting on a wall. How can we explore that, not only looking at it, not only having someone describing it, but maybe having the sound, which is equal to the painting, or having a haptic sensation from it.
00:10:55:04 - 00:11:21:07
Anthony Lockett
Yeah, yeah. And have you been working with museums and cultural centers to actually introduce some of these accessible options?
Sophia Alexandersson
Yeah, we have. We have 12 partners in the project. We are spanning from companies to cultural institutions, to ourselves, which is a disability organization, I wouldn't say, but we are a knowledge center focusing on disability inclusion.
00:11:21:09 - 00:11:41:15
Sophia Alexandersson
So we have been, of course, doing lots of workshop in particular in our parts of the project, we have been meeting lots of individuals, disabled individuals and people who are working with them to really also go for this kind of really user aspect, designing, not trying to create something which is not in use or in need for anyone.
00:11:41:17 - 00:12:04:00
Sophia Alexandersson
So yes, we have been meeting a lot, so I would say cultural institutions is also a very important target group for the project.
Anthony Lockett
Okay. And are there any particular obstacles you've encountered in introducing this kind of technology into those spaces?
Sophia Alexandersson
No, I can't really say that. I think it's more about what are the barriers today.
00:12:04:02 - 00:12:28:14
Sophia Alexandersson
I think accessibility has been very much about, maybe, focusing on physical things first of all. But like Burrows university, which is a lead partner, they have been working a lot with deafblind people and really looking into technology, especially with haptics and so on, which is like ensuring also other types of ways of working and to really overcome these types of barriers.
00:12:28:14 - 00:12:56:03
Sophia Alexandersson
But what we have been trying to really go into is to not having the disability itself in focus, but rather how do we make sure that everyone can participate.
Anthony Lockett
I see, and, I promised that I would give you a chance to talk about your remote performance platform for co-creating music, which sounds really exciting. So as far as I understand, the platform ensures synchronized sounds and interaction using haptics and biodata.
00:12:56:05 - 00:13:18:03
Anthony Lockett
It allows musicians to rehearse, perform, express feelings, and experiment together as if they were together physically in the same space. You know, where did the idea come from?
Sophia Alexandersson
It's actually an idea we've been working quite a lot with for many years at ShareMusic. So actually, when we got the invitation to this consortium, we said we would love to work and develop this further because we do think it fits into this call.
00:13:18:05 - 00:13:38:21
Sophia Alexandersson
So, I think it was really kind of an emergency situation coming up during the pandemic. We all had to stay at home, especially for musicians. You know, it did become a really hard thing. How do you play together? Because I mean, obviously Zoom and everything, you know, you had to sing Happy Birthday to each other, you know, and it just sounded horrible because you are not in sync.
00:13:38:21 - 00:14:01:20
Anthony Lockett
Yeah. The latency.
Sophia Alexandersson
So, but for a lot of disabled people, the situation we had during the pandemics is like their daily life. They have limited possibilities to maybe take part in work life to study lots of things. Not for all of them, but for some people, these distances are there. So, for us, this situation has been something we have been kind of looking into in general.
00:14:01:24 - 00:14:32:01
Sophia Alexandersson
How can we have equal access for people to participate, even have it as their own work? So, the idea really came out and then, we also had a chance to being introduced to JackTrip, which is technology which has been developed by Stanford, which is about working with low latency. So, what we had done during the project is really that we have also added new technology developing both JackTrip peripheral but also other technologies.
00:14:32:01 - 00:14:52:07
Sophia Alexandersson
So, we are coming to the next phase because what is missing when you are online. It's the emotions. How do you share the emotions? We are in the same room here right now. We can feel each other. You know, our bodies are picking up things, but what happens when we go online is really hard and is very important when you want to play and collaborate with people.
00:14:52:09 - 00:15:15:09
Sophia Alexandersson
So we have been looking into ways of how you can share that, you know, online. So what we are sharing downstairs here now is that people can actually try two things. One is we are using face recognition. Then we ask people to smile into the camera and then on the screen you can see projected your emotions.
00:15:15:15 - 00:15:36:09
Anthony Lockett
I see. And if there are any musicians out there who are listening to us or watching this podcast, is this technology freely available? Can people access the platform?
Sophia Alexandersson
Not the platform itself. It's still a proof of concept right now. So we need to take it to the next level so it can, you know, buffer technology needs to be more advanced.
00:15:36:09 - 00:16:03:23
Sophia Alexandersson
And then in the end, of course, it's going to be what you think a service which can be available through licensing. That's the plan at least. But I mean JackTrip in itself is available and some other technologies are also available.
Anthony Lockett
Okay. Thanks very much, Sophia. And now I'd like to turn to Alessandro, who's with us from NaviBlind, which is a project that's developed a GPS navigator that enables blind and visually impaired people to walk independently to a destination.
00:16:04:00 - 00:16:36:13
Anthony Lockett
And I believe you actually have something you can show us to explain, exactly how the.
Alessandro Kartsiaklis
Yes, I do. So that's the hardware that we are using. It contains a small satellite navigation unit. I won't say GPS, because GPS is the American version. We also have the European Galileo and the Russian and Chinese counterpart. So here in the cup, we have a small GNSS processing unit.
Anthony Lockett
It really is small, for those who are listening to us, who can't see, I mean, it is about 2 or 3cm by 4 or 5cm.
00:16:36:13 - 00:16:59:23
Alessandro Kartsiaklis
Maybe a bit more. But yeah, it's still very light and compact. This allows us to get some accuracy in positioning that can be up to a few centimeters. Very open spaces. But we try to provide navigation with an accuracy of at least 30 to 40cm in urban environments.
00:16:59:23 - 00:17:22:10
Alessandro Kartsiaklis
So that we can monitor step by step the route of our users and also tell them when to turn, when to stop and provide them with a quick description of the most important features.
Anthony Lockett
Right. And is this still at the prototype stage, or are you making it available?
Alessandro Kartsiaklis
No, this is actually our MVP. So we had our prototype for a couple of years.
00:17:22:11 - 00:17:45:16
Alessandro Kartsiaklis
We had around 20 users, trying it, they loved it because when we moved to the MVP, all of them, signed up. So right now, we have around 20 active users, independent.
Anthony Lockett
And are they using it every day in their lives?
Alessandro Kartsiaklis
Pretty much. Yes. Okay. Yes. It's mostly useful when they have to learn a new route
00:17:45:18 - 00:18:07:09
Alessandro Kartsiaklis
they are not familiar with. So it's also an alternative to mobility and orientation trainings, which can take even up to one and a half months. With our solution, we, of course, spend some time doing the quality assurance on the routes, but within 48 hours, the users have the route they have requested.
00:18:07:09 - 00:18:35:16
Anthony Lockett
And what kind of feedback do you get from the users? What kind of difference does it make to them on a day to day basis?
Alessandro Kartsiaklis
Well, for many of them it's life changing. So, basically the idea for this product stemmed from a personal necessity of a friend of ours, Emile, who is today also communication manager in the company. He moved from a small city outside Copenhagen to Copenhagen, a few years ago to study in his university.
00:18:35:16 - 00:18:54:21
Alessandro Kartsiaklis
So he suddenly found himself in a completely new environment. He had to learn how to go to the public transport. He had to learn how to go to university, to the local shops. So, what we set out to do with NaviBlind was to create a first network of points of interest for him.
00:18:54:23 - 00:19:19:03
Alessandro Kartsiaklis
And this was the way he started his master years with NaviBlind guiding him through the network of the city. So, yeah, for, for users, this technology can be life changing because as I mentioned, it can bring down preparation time, planning and preparation time for mobility by a big percentage.
00:19:19:05 - 00:19:52:15
Alessandro Kartsiaklis
And also enables users to actually be independent in navigation, to choose active mobility over a taxi service and explore new places. So we try to offer leisure opportunities, work opportunities, educational opportunities and socializing also for all users.
Anthony Lockett
Right. Listening to all of you, it seems to me that one of the things you have in common is that you all work with quite a lot of different partners within consortia for the projects.
00:19:52:15 - 00:20:14:00
Anthony Lockett
But also you have different stakeholders. You're working with user groups, disabled people, in the case of MuseIT and NaviBlind, etc., working with the mining industry, with the manufacturing industry, how have you found that experience during the project? You know, what obstacles have you faced? What lessons have you learned so that you could maybe share with others who are embarking on similar projects?
00:20:14:02 - 00:20:38:23
George Nikolakopoulos
I have a very nice example, for example, in robotics, when we say exploration, we mean how the robot will explore an unknown environment. But in the mining industry, when you say exploration, it means how you can find the minerals. So, it took us maybe two years to set up the vocabulary.
00:20:39:00 - 00:21:03:24
George Nikolakopoulos
And, of course, Persephone is not our first project. But when we started working in the mining industry, it was a problem that was overcome. And another thing is that the mining industry wants to see solutions, autonomy, automation also, in real life; they want to see things being demonstrated in real life conditions.
00:21:03:24 - 00:21:29:07
George Nikolakopoulos
And I think that is something that gave us a very good inspiration to develop systems that will have resiliency, will be able to operate under unknown conditions in unstructured and harsh lands. So we learned a totally different way of thinking and developing systems.
Anthony Lockett
Very interesting. Sophia, do you have a story you could share?
Sophia Alexandersson
I'm just trying to think about that.
00:21:29:07 - 00:21:47:17
Sophia Alexandersson
Well, I think in general, I think what has been really interesting during these three years has been that we all come from very different perspectives, but we have had inclusion and access as the kind of core points. For an organization like ShareMusic that has been working for such a long time, certain things are just in our backbone, really.
00:21:47:17 - 00:22:08:11
Sophia Alexandersson
You know, you don't even think about it. And then you have to rephrase it, perhaps as you say, or you have to re-describe it. And also, I think one main question is for me really also how can you embed accessibility and inclusion so it really becomes the norm. You don't really have to add it as a kind of add-on when you work with it.
00:22:08:11 - 00:22:31:11
Sophia Alexandersson
I feel that is something which is really a big takeaway. How do you do that?
Anthony Lockett
Right. Thanks very much. How about you Alessandro in your project NaviBlind?
Alessandro Kartsiaklis
We keep learning on multiple levels. So when we started, for example, one of our main concerns was the technology, how to make it compact, how to make it reliable.
00:22:31:13 - 00:22:58:17
Alessandro Kartsiaklis
Then as we move on, we see that there is also an aspect of interpretation of guidance or like the correct way to provide instructions to the users. We also, at some point, had to talk about the design and stylistic aspects, which we haven't thought so much about it. So, the choice of different colors in the cap was something that was suggested by the users themselves.
00:22:58:22 - 00:23:21:21
Alessandro Kartsiaklis
And now that we are expanding into the German market from our base in Denmark, we see that we have to do a lot of work to translate the requirements of the German audience, which may sound strange, but is quite different from the from the Danish. So, yeah.
Anthony Lockett
It's not just about language.
00:23:21:21 - 00:23:46:02
Anthony Lockett
It's about acceptance of the technology.
Alessandro Kartsiaklis
Yes, but not only that, but also lifestyle, the report with the public organizations of different kinds. So yeah, it's a very interesting and we keep learning.
Anthony Lockett
And Thomas, I mean you have a huge consortium, as you said earlier on, it must have been not always easy to get all of those partners together and agree on a common direction.
00:23:46:02 - 00:24:19:03
Thomas Gutt
I would say you need a strong steering team. And I mentioned that equilibrium is important, equilibrium between industry and academic partners. Yeah. And I think this is really a very healthy connection. Because the industry provides interesting data and get to know the future talents. And the academic partners, they can work with their students really deep into topics.
00:24:19:05 - 00:24:41:20
Thomas Gutt
It's something which is very healthy for both sides. And that's what I like. And we really focus on that. We have this in a good equilibrium. That means, the amount of partners industry is roughly the amount of partners in the academia.
Anthony Lockett
Very interesting. What I mean it sounds like there've been a lot of learnings in you know, different projects, a lot of progress made, but still some way to go for all of you.
00:24:41:20 - 00:25:01:11
Anthony Lockett
You have ambitions. You're all working in areas where things are moving very quickly. Robotics, AI, technology more generally. If you were to have your crystal ball and look ahead five years into the future, where would you ideally like to see your projects developing, perhaps Sophia, would you like to go first?
Sophia Alexandersson
All right.
00:25:01:11 - 00:25:19:09
Sophia Alexandersson
I think it’s pretty clear where we are heading towards. So for the remote performance platform, I think in five years' time, we do foresee we are ready to take it to the market somewhere to share it. Yeah.
Anthony Lockett
Well, good luck with that.
Sophia Alexandersson
Thank you.
Anthony Lockett
How about you, Thomas?
00:25:19:09 - 00:25:43:18
Thomas Gutt
Five years in the future, well, I'm really hoping that we see a much deeper integration of AI in manufacturing, because I think it's really helpful. And we all will benefit a lot of that. That’s what we’ll see in five years.
Anthony Lockett
And people will be going to work out in your AI gym.
Thomas Gutt
Yes, yes, but the people are still in the project or in the work.
00:25:43:18 - 00:26:14:14
Thomas Gutt
That's the reason why we have this 5.0. Because industry 5.0 is re-incorporating the person, the worker in the process, we are not replacing them with robots. But we make a good new co-work between the machines, robots, and the human being.
Anthony Lockett
Very important. Alessandro?
Alessandro Kartsiaklis
Yes. Well, we hope in five years we have entered the largest market, at least the European market, but also internationally.
00:26:14:16 - 00:26:36:21
Alessandro Kartsiaklis
We hope we will keep developing new sensors and new tools that we can integrate in our solution but also develop new solutions for accessibility and mobility more in general, and not only for blind and partially sighted people, but for everyone that can face mobility issues in daily life.
Anthony Lockett
So potentially a huge market for you there.
00:26:37:02 - 00:27:03:15
Alessandro Kartsiaklis
Yeah.
Anthony Lockett
And do you think you can stay here in Europe and do that.
Alessandro Kartsiaklis
We would like to, I mean, in the phases of our future development, we are incorporating as much as we can EU technologies. So even when it comes to AI, we would like to try first European models as also supporting the AI strategy from the European Union and the European Commission.
00:27:03:15 - 00:27:23:11
Alessandro Kartsiaklis
So as much as we can European models and if we cannot, of course, we prioritize safety of our users and the user experience.
Anthony Lockett
Thanks very much. And how about you?
George Nikolakopoulos
For us, we call it “zero entry mining”. It means that you create mines where there is no human in the loop, totally zero entry.
00:27:23:13 - 00:27:48:10
George Nikolakopoulos
I am afraid that this will not happen in five years, but I envision a future where there will be more autonomy on the mining machines, reduction of humans operating in risk areas, also smaller mining machines, smaller impact on the environment and totally safe and the responsible extraction of minerals.
Anthony Lockett
Okay. Well, that I'm afraid we've run out of time.
00:27:48:10 - 00:28:05:04
Anthony Lockett
We could continue, I'm sure, fascinating topics, but I'd like to thank our guests, George, Alessandro, Thomas and Sophia. Thank you very much for joining us. And thanks also to you for tuning in to this special edition of the CORDIScovery podcast. You can follow us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.
00:28:05:04 - 00:28:25:07
Anthony Lockett
And please do check out the podcast homepage on the Cordis website. Subscribe to make sure the hottest research and EU funded science isn't passing you by, and you can also find more information and project examples on the Cordis website, on the European Commission's Research and Innovation website and in our online magazine Horizon.
AI – a powerful tool to meet today’s challenges
This special episode of CORDIScovery comes to you from the EU’s Research and Innovation Days(opens in new window). Let’s dive into artificial intelligence and machine learning. Our four cutting-edge projects have all received EU research and innovation funding. showcasing the transformative potential of artificial intelligence (AI) and machine learning in various sectors, including health, environment, industry and culture. Thomas Gutt is director funding projects and coordination, at Infineon Technologies(opens in new window). He is the AIMS5.0 project coordinator, which aims to use AI to improve the sustainability of European manufacturing, focusing on eco-friendly manufacturing practices by enhancing product yield and reducing energy consumption per unit. George Nikolakopoulos, coordinator of the PERSEPHONE project, is professor in Robotics and Artificial Intelligence (RAI), within the Robotics Group of the Division of Systems and Signals, in the Department of Computer Science, Electrical and Space Engineering, Luleå University of Technology(opens in new window) in Sweden. Sophia Alexandersson is the coordinator of the MuseIT project. She is the chief executive and artistic director of ShareMusic and Performing Arts(opens in new window), a Swedish centre for artistic development and inclusion. With a background as a musician and pedagogue with a Master’s in Fine Arts from the Royal College of Music in Stockholm, and a Postgraduate degree in Performance and Communication from the Guildhall School of Music and Drama in London, she has a strong commitment to everyone’s right to arts and culture. Alessandro Kartsiaklis is CEO of NaviBlind(opens in new window), which develops technologies for improved accessibility and mobility, particularly aiding blind and partially sighted individuals in navigation and daily tasks.
Happy to hear from you!
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Germany, Sweden